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by Karl Egressy on Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:27 am
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I have been a member of NSN for 14 years, posted/commented close to 30000 times so far.
Lately I have the feeling that this whole posting your images and commenting on your fellow photographer's pictures, is quickly going down.
Less and less people are posting, lot of good photographers left for good, many of the new ones never comment on anybody's images.
It looks like it is a downward spiral and might take down the whole website in a couple of years.
I notice similar trend on other website like BPN would be one.
I might not see it right or I'm too pessimistic about the whole situation.
I would like to know what you think.
Thanks.
 

by SantaFeJoe on Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:58 am
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I agree with you, Karl. The way I look at it is like having a large bag of candy, compared to just a couple of pieces. You get tired of the abundance and the enjoyment is not as great. Everyone is taking great images nowadays, so they finally become cliché. This is especially true with BIF images. It takes a special image to draw comments. Too many look almost the same and are of common subjects. Equipment has made capture of many images easier, compared to older technology. Behavioral shots are my preference and are harder to get because you can’t always predict them. I seldom go to the gallery section any more because of the repetitiveness of images.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by Craig Lipski on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am
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I agree with your observations and concerns. I am, frankly, discouraged. I originally came, and still come, here to learn - advice and comments from more talented photog’s, as well as examples and inspiration. I think I’ve learned and grown a lot from such. Even though I specifically welcome comments and suggestions in my posts, lately I feel very fortunate to receive any feedback from anyone beyond our helpful moderators (thank you mod’s!). I love a “great shot” or “attaboy” response, but I really value constructive feedback and suggestions.
I offer advice / critique / input when it is asked for or if a particular image really strikes me - but I see others who post frequently, ask for ID help, and don’t acknowledge such or offer feedback to others’ images. I’ve quit commenting on their posts, but I have a nagging in my conscience that I’m stooping to their level and becoming part of the problem.
I used to feel that this community was special because it was a helpful, supportive, interactive community; lately the galleries seem to be more and more an extension / example of the growing “look at me” social media cesspool - and that’s on US - the community is what its members make it. The mod’s and admin’s give us a fantastic tool here; let’s use it for the benefit of us all!
Thanks, Karl, for posting this - hopefully it will be thoughtfully received and considered as constructively as intended.
 

by Paul Fusco on Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:28 pm
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I think it might help matters if the poster told a bit about the situation when the image was taken.
How did he/she go about getting the shot? What considerations and decisions were made? What were the options? This type of information is lacking in almost all posts and that is why they have become uninteresting. It seems that some are just looking for the "atta-boy" and nothing else.
With the improvements in camera technology making getting good shots easier than in the past, the bottom line is that very few photos these days are really that unique or special. Total saturation.

In my area the FB shooters have the continuing effect of messing up good opportunities by broadcasting specifics on locations that end up bringing in multitudes of undereducated and underlensed FB photographers, most of whom do not know field etiquette or the first thing about wildlife behavior, light, or consideration but that's another story.

Paul
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by WDCarrier on Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:36 pm
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I believe everyone’s saying the same thing. Overkill! How many keel-billed toucans, crested caracaras, bald eagles, wood ducks, etc. can I comment on? All are good images but all are pretty much the same, taken in the same place with the same equipment on similar settings. I have begun reducing my submissions to those depicting a more artistic mood as opposed to “here’s another osprey!” I tend to comment on the same or of images of very unique species.
Many of us “old duffers” who began our interest in wildlife and nature photography when it was just emerging as something that was just not limited to a few select photographers with their Speed Graphics have seen not only an almost unprecedented advance in technology but a massive increase in participants. In 1993 on a trip to Denali passengers on the park service bus were awed by my 400mm f6.3 lens. Today, my 500mm f4 is usually the “little” lens in a similar group. In addition, I’ve seen pretty decent images taken with an iphone having a 1/3” sensor and 12mp.
We tend to disregard that the line of photographers taking pictures of wolves in Yellowstone are all getting the same images. Times do change.
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by Mike in O on Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:24 pm
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It is not just gear that is making the pictures repetitious but what constitutes a good picture. What I call pop sickle photos of birds on a stick with blurred background (copying Art Morris) can be be nice for an ID in a book but totally lack character and reference. Photos at ground level only possible in a city park setting can convey intimacy but become de-rigor of what is the most valued and all the shots look the same. Environmental photos have their place in the pantheon of great shots and because of the background, all will look a little different from one another.
 

by david fletcher on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:46 pm
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Lots have been said above and all without fail are valid points that I can identify with.  

Taking on board most points, the ones that stand out to me, must relate to the ethos we want from this community and what we feel it should represent.

Less important:   Overkill on images.  That's not the real reason many don't comment.  Granted the images of the next BIF etc can be repetitive, and etc on pretty well so many images, are less likely to draw comment because we see it every day.  To COUNTER that, we still aught/need to be reminded it might be that individuals early learning successes, so is worthy of some recognition.  

Real reason to me, many don't comment is there is a mix of the A). professional advertising their next trips.  B). I need a quick EGO massage... C). less people genuinely just enjoying photography and are comfortable where they are as people.  (You can thank Face Book for the change and the incessant need to tell the world what I had for breakfast this morning FOR THE B GROUP)...  

On top of that, we have the,  it's now a fact of life that what was inspirational 10 years ago is bread and butter now.  OMG I'm so bored!!    Shouldn't stop input though.  Fact:  I'm guilty of NOT commenting on those that don't give back something to the community.  On principal, I don't like those that want the "quick fix and massage stroked"... Not going to lose any sleep on that as sainthood doesn't apply to me.

More important:  Discouraging the "I need a quick Fix team as mentioned above... please massage my ego... look at me community".  They will be there always now, and probably the economics of any site has to factor that in.  As per note above, if we can accommodate that element and find a way to encourage behaviour that is more positive, we should move the pendulum back to where I feel it's good to be.

More Important: Retaining the site integrity.  How?  Couple have already touched on it.  It is good for people to get genuine feedback from commenting.  Not the sterilisation critique I see on some sites, but comments that lets someone move forward, has always been one of our strengths.  That's always been a good thing here, and many have benefited, myself included. 

Secondly, as mentioned, without going into location details, encouraging info on how and what was needed on the image is so useful and creates that interest that might stimulate a response and benefit to all who view.  AV, ISO Aperture, etc is useful for those on the learning curve for technical reasons, but info on the arrival of the image, behaviour, etc is to me, where it's at.  That might help.

Not probably the most articulate help, as others may be better suited, but there are points all have touched on that have merit.
Make your life spectacular!

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by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:35 pm
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A big part of the decline, in my opinion is the emergence of social media. When this site started, there really wasn't a social media ecosphere where people posted photographs. As more and more of people's lives and time spent on a computer went to social media sites, more and more pictures got posted there and that left less and less time for other sites with photos. One of the major objectives of sites like Facebook is to addict the user to it and trying to make it essentially the only place people go to. I can post the identical picture on FB as here and within an hour I could have 50 likes and 10 comments, I'd be lucky to get 10 views in an hour now. As for viability of NSN, Greg is the only one that can comment definitively but in my opinion, that is tied much more to the store and to the workshop part of the business.
 

by OntPhoto on Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:22 pm
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Besides Facebook, Flickr is big for photo sharing.  I am seldom if ever in the Galleries.  Maybe in spurts here and there.  I spend most of my time in the discussion forums (mostly Photography Topics and Equipment).  I enjoy sharing info, both contributing and learning.
 

by Karl Egressy on Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:46 am
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Thanks for coming in and expressing your opinion.
It's nice to see that you care.
Photography is a wonderful hobby and it is never boring.
Birds, mammals, and all the creatures and nature in general are always beautiful IMO.
(I don't do Facebook so I don't know much about it.)
 

by stevenmajor on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:25 am
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It is nice to see people care.
I think the purpose of this web site is to support Earthly play dates for a very select few. Good for them. They have done so for years in a kind and accessible and above board way, literally helping millions with this site in the process. E.J. Peiker should be bronzed.
All of this in one place is not so common.

Recently, I to have seen many not good behaviors at NSN. I assume they are intentional. An effort to dumb down the site, make it more average and thus more accessible to more people...increasing participation to increase revenue, or a failed effort to preposition itself with better numbers so to fetch a higher selling price. What I infer is a very common business practice. Mediocrity and the dollar are often good friends.

If that’s not the goal, I suggest the following:
Remove moderators from the image posting area.
Employ one silent moderator to manage posting guidelines that include, screening images to meet very basic technical / aesthetic standards, and limiting the frequency any one specific species or geographic region appears.
Encourage people to post their very best by reducing the number of images anyone can post in one month.
GL
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:39 am
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stevenmajor wrote: Recently, I to have seen many not good behaviors at NSN. I assume they are intentional. An effort to dumb down the site, make it more average and thus more accessible to more people...increasing participation to increase revenue, or a failed effort to preposition itself with better numbers so to fetch a higher selling price. What I infer is a very common business practice.  Mediocrity and the dollar are often good friends.
That is definitely not a conscious or intended thing.  Do you have some examples so that we are aware of the things that make you feel that way?
 

by SantaFeJoe on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:31 pm
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stevenmajor wrote:It is nice to see people care.
I think the purpose of this web site is to support Earthly play dates for a very select few. 

Recently, I to have seen many not good behaviors at NSN. I assume they are intentional. An effort to dumb down the site, make it more average and thus more accessible to more people...increasing participation to increase revenue, or a failed effort to preposition itself with better numbers so to fetch a higher selling price. What I infer is a very common business practice.  Mediocrity and the dollar are often good friends.

If that’s not the goal, I suggest the following:
Remove moderators from the image posting area.
Employ one silent moderator to manage posting guidelines that include, screening images to meet very basic technical / aesthetic standards, and limiting the frequency any one specific species or geographic region appears.
Encourage people to post their very best by reducing the number of images anyone can post in one month.
GL
You are so far from reality! This site is one of the most well rounded, easy to navigate, informative and helpful nature photography sites around. A site like this is costly and time consuming beyond measure to maintain and provides an extremely valuable resource. The moderators deserve much more respect than you are giving them. They are often the ones who provide valuable critiques when others only give pats on the back or no comment at all. If you think people are not posting their best already, you are looking with closed eyes. The images posted come from an ever changing group over time and are not monopolized by only a few persons for a long period of time. 

Re: discussion forums. What annoys me is when an OP offers up an idea, but never responds when asked a question nor defends an idea put forth. E.G., this one:

https://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=275508

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by kiwijohn on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:49 pm
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Paul Fusco wrote:I think it might help matters if the poster told a bit about the situation when the image was taken.
How did he/she go about getting the shot? What considerations and decisions were made? What were the options? This type of information is lacking in almost all posts and that is why they have become uninteresting. It seems that some are just looking for the "atta-boy" and nothing else.
With the improvements in camera technology making getting good shots easier than in the past, the bottom line is that very few photos these days are really that unique or special. Total saturation.

In my area the FB shooters have the continuing effect of messing up good opportunities by broadcasting specifics on locations that end up bringing in multitudes of undereducated and underlensed FB photographers, most of whom do not know field etiquette or the first thing about wildlife behavior, light, or consideration but that's another story.

Paul
I agree with Paul, theres nothing more frustrating than seeing an outstanding shot with absolutely no info about the equipment and technique used to get it.
Result? I rarely delve into galleries as often I feel discouraged rather than educated and encouraged.
If the site is sensitive/secret thats fine, but its the "how" not the "where" I'm interested in.

John
 

by wdg on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:31 pm
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I have posted photos a couple of times. I've asked questions in the forums a couple of times. What comments I got on my photos (1 or 2) I appreciated.
I don't bother posting photos anymore tho because of the lack of comments on most people's photos. Although a few photographers photos get multiple comments, others that are either as good (or not) get 1 or none. That's discouraging.
When I have posted I tried to comment on at least 3 others. I chose photos that had no comments. I quit trying.
As for advertising for your businesses with your photography posts - I don't mind. Photography as a business is difficult at best and it's nice to see what someone can offer if you choose to take a workshop.
Facebook and social media is not the same as searching out this type of community. Photographers come to a website like this for help and constructive criticism from people that 'know'. You won't get that on Flickr.
Unpopular as this probably will sound - this website is a club that few are admitted to for comments on their pics or for the editors choice.
 

by DChan on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:34 pm
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kiwijohn wrote: .. theres nothing more frustrating than seeing an outstanding shot with absolutely no info about the equipment and technique used to get it....
Sounds like photographs could be hazardous to one's health :lol:
 

by dougc on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:39 pm
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SantaFeJoe wrote:
stevenmajor wrote:It is nice to see people care.
I think the purpose of this web site is to support Earthly play dates for a very select few. 

Recently, I to have seen many not good behaviors at NSN. I assume they are intentional. An effort to dumb down the site, make it more average and thus more accessible to more people...increasing participation to increase revenue, or a failed effort to preposition itself with better numbers so to fetch a higher selling price. What I infer is a very common business practice.  Mediocrity and the dollar are often good friends.

If that’s not the goal, I suggest the following:
Remove moderators from the image posting area.
Employ one silent moderator to manage posting guidelines that include, screening images to meet very basic technical / aesthetic standards, and limiting the frequency any one specific species or geographic region appears.
Encourage people to post their very best by reducing the number of images anyone can post in one month.
GL
You are so far from reality! This site is one of the most well rounded, easy to navigate, informative and helpful nature photography sites around. A site like this is costly and time consuming beyond measure to maintain and provides an extremely valuable resource. The moderators deserve much more respect than you are giving them. They are often the ones who provide valuable critiques when others only give pats on the back or no comment at all. If you think people are not posting their best already, you are looking with closed eyes. The images posted come from an ever changing group over time and are not monopolized by only a few persons for a long period of time. 

Re: discussion forums. What annoys me is when an OP offers up an idea, but never responds when asked a question nor defends an idea put forth. E.G., this one:

https://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=275508

Joe
Well played, Joe.
 

by DChan on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:42 pm
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wdg wrote:...I don't bother posting photos anymore tho because of the lack of comments on most people's photos. ..
What constructive comments you could make on photos that are technically well-executed but boring ? :wink:
 

by wdg on Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:57 pm
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DChan
Say that :)

Seriously - if that was my photo I would love to have someone say -if you had done 'this' or 'that' it would have enhanced the photo.
There are a couple of photographers that I follow, would love to take a workshop from them - there is a quality about their images that is missing in the majority of photography today.
I would love to find that eventually in mine.
 

by mikeojohnson on Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:48 am
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Back to the OP. How many sites has anyone belonged to for 14 years and still visit fairly regularly? I would guess not many which is a testament to the quality and effort put into maintaining the site. The store was a great add as it sells useful stuff for our purposes.

I agree with Karl that it appears there has been a decline in activity. But I also agree with EJ that social media has siphoned a lot of the images that would have ordinarily been posted here. How many of us have an Instagram account, or post regularly to Facebook?

I, for one, hope the site continues into the future. As new technology, like the shift to mirrorless, takes place, it is nice to know there is a place to go with qualified photographers and technology experts to help sort through the changes.

Mike
"Photography intensifies the experience of life"
http://www.mojphoto.com
 

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