A new round of restrictions for photographers at Zion

https://fstoppers.com/originals/no-trip ... ops-212558

Tripods no longer allowed for workshops.  I'm sure we'll see this rule proliferate quickly.

The rules are a bit unclear. The implication from page 5, #11, is that if you are off trails under certain conditions, you could still use tripods. Trails are off limits to tripods. On page 1, #2, it says to stay on trails.

Rules for 2018

Joe

I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

And Why would they do that ?
What would be logical reasoning ?
It's been awhile since I've been to Zion (7 years I guess) and back then I was one of the very few
with a tripod. Are trails now blocked with people with tripods nowadays ?

Andrew_5488 wrote: And Why would they do that ?
What would be logical reasoning ?
It's been awhile since I've been to Zion (7 years I guess) and back then I was one of the very few
with a tripod. Are trails now blocked with people with tripods nowadays ?

I'm puzzled as well.  I was last there six years ago, and I crawled all over that park for six days, and the only place I recall seeing more than one tripod (including my one) set up was at the Virgin River bridge...i.e. not on a trail (and presumably not affected by these new rules).  Of course, I never ran into anything that looked like a workshop either.

I really wonder what led to this new ordinance...

We do know that it wasn't the National Parks Advisory Council decision since 3/4 of the members just resigned in protest against Trump/Zinke.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

E.J. Peiker wrote:I look at this as a first step that could eventually lead to banning tripods period in National Parks.

And Why would they do that ?
What would be logical reasoning ?
It's been awhile since I've been to Zion (7 years I guess) and back then I was one of the very few
with a tripod. Are trails now blocked with people with tripods nowadays ?

Oops. Looks like I missed that this is in regard to workshops.
Individuals are still allowed to use tripods.
That makes slightly more sense.

This is the result of letting individuals make money from public lands. Never what public lands were intended for or should ever be used for.

The reason is simple:
Too many are coming away with beautiful images of PUBLIC lands which will make it harder for the Interior Department to gain public acceptance of new policies to open public lands to extraction interests.
Just kidding, that would never happen, right????

Paul

Paul Fusco wrote:The reason is simple:
Too many are coming away with beautiful images of PUBLIC lands which will make it harder for the Interior Department to gain public acceptance of new policies to open public lands to extraction interests.
Just kidding, that would never happen, right????

Paul

Ohh, so you think it just started ?
Didn't previous administration open arctic for drilling twice ?

“stevenmajor wrote:This is the result of letting individuals make money from public lands. Never what public lands were intended for or should ever be used for.

Not true at all! Historically, mining, logging, grazing, homesteading (a long time ago), etc., have gone on for a long time on public lands.  Here in NM, public lands have been traded for private lands (in one instance with a former governor)  of much lower value, under very questionable circumstances. It is different in National Parks, Monuments and designated wilderness areas. At least, comercial photography and workshops are non-extractive uses of public lands. Here is a link to the description of public lands:

https://www.doi.gov/blog/americas-public-lands-explained

Joe

If you look at this photo of Bryce Canyon, it is easy to see how a mass of tripods would disturb other visitors and could hog an overlook or other spot:

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/pad-u ... ional-park

It happens all the time at the Flight Deck at Bosque.

Same is true for places like Brooks Falls, as mentioned in a previous thread:

https://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=268967

https://www.nps.gov/katm/blogs/people-platforms-and-bears.htm

https://mobile.twitter.com/markboster/status/491720209875488769

Joe

SantaFeJoe wrote:

“stevenmajor wrote:This is the result of letting individuals make money from public lands. Never what public lands were intended for or should ever be used for.

Not true at all! Historically, mining, logging, grazing, homesteading (a long time ago), etc., have gone on for a long time on public lands.  Here in NM, public lands have been traded for private lands (in one instance with a former governor)  of much lower value, under very questionable circumstances. It is different in National Parks, Monuments and designated wilderness areas. At least, comercial photography and workshops are non-extractive uses of public lands. Here is a link to the description of public lands:

https://www.doi.gov/blog/americas-public-lands-explained

Joe

You should clarify "wilderness areas" as being non-extractive; it is a constant fight in Oregon to keep mining interests out of our wildernesses.

Mike in O wrote:

SantaFeJoe wrote:It is different in National Parks, Monuments and designated wilderness areas.

You should clarify "wilderness areas" as being non-extractive; it is a constant fight in Oregon to keep mining interests out of our wildernesses.

Designated wilderness areas are different from “wilderness study areas”:

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/prog_ncls_orwa_WSA-FAQ.pdf

Joe

I am talking actual wilderness areas...nickle and gold mining in SW and NE Oregon, pumice in central, Mercury and gold in SE. The stumbling block for mining tends to be access and court challenges but it is allowed.

Ahh...let's take the easy route. We can intimidate individuals with tripods but when it comes to oil drilling rigs, backhoes, and excavators we just look the other way. I'm just glad I was strong and healthy enough to hike through Escalante Staircase before Zinke was appointed.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

Paul Fusco wrote:The reason is simple:
Too many are coming away with beautiful images of PUBLIC lands which will make it harder for the Interior Department to gain public acceptance of new policies to open public lands to extraction interests.
Just kidding, that would never happen, right????

Paul

Ohh, so you think it just started ?
Didn't previous administration open arctic for drilling twice ?

Andrew,
In case you haven’t been informed, the current administration has been underhandedly striking down conservation protections for public lands. That includes national parks, wildlife refuges, national monuments and BLM lands. The widely publicized intent is to sell mineral development rights to corporate interests. This includes oil and gas drilling, surface mining and commercial development. 
As for the previous administration, I am not aware that they opened any arctic refuge land to oil drilling. That looks like it will be done in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge now as that provision is included in the new tax reform law that was passed by Republicans and signed law by the current president last month. 
Paul

it would be interesting to know if there are a significant number of complaints by tourists / visitors that are not photographers made to park administrations... about groups of tripods disturbing their visits...

just wondering....

andre.

I have been told to not set up my tripod along parts of the boardwalk at Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary in Florida. Didn't make me happy, but I understood. The boardwalk has limited space and often gets lots of visitation.

Paul

Paul Fusco wrote:I have been told to not set up my tripod along parts of the boardwalk at Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary in Florida. Didn't make me happy, but I understood. The boardwalk has limited space and often gets lots of visitation.

Paul

Common sense needs to prevail in all situations. Just because we have expensive equipment does not give us priority over anyone else.  There have been many occasions when I had to fold up the legs on my tripod and use it as a monopod to make room for others.