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by Kerry on Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:25 pm
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If you look at the top of the linked entry on Don Smith's site an update of sorts was added--it's not clear when--that indicates that the issue remains unsettled.

"UPDATE: I have reached out to JT Blenker and as they say – there are always two sides to every story. Apparently JT and I talked to the same person at Zion but were told two different pieces of information. I will say for my workshop locations, we are good with tripods, but I can’t speak for other Workshops and the locations they choose. All of us CUA holders are trying to get clarification and Zion is on it. They say within two weeks this issue will be rectified."

The fact that it's going to take up to two weeks to issue a clarification speaks volumes.

On a somewhat related matter, having spent time in the park myself, I wonder how a workshop in Zion--at least within the canyon part of the park--would even work, even without any sort of tripod restriction. I checked the park website and I see that the bus system is now in effect from February through the end of November--10 months out of 12. Given the limitations--in terms of times of day that the bus runs and the difficulty presented by trying to find space on buses for more than a dozen people at a time--I have to wonder what the experience is like.
 

by Wildflower-nut on Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:17 pm
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Even in January (I'm in Zion now) parking is a premium at most trail heads and prime locations. No problem parking at the bridge for the classic sunset picture tonight. In the fall, I've seen the photographers shoulder to shoulder on the bridge with tripod legs intertwined. Whether we like it or not the only practical solution for Zion is buses..The next step may be permits to enter like the wave.
 

by Kerry on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:06 am
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I have no problem with the bus system; I was at Zion for about five days in September, 1998--not long before the bus system was implemented--and the situation in the canyon was miserable, every single day. Half the time was spent trying to find somewhere to ditch the car, even if it meant more than a mile walk to where you wanted to go. The circumstances at the Temple of Sinawava parking area was beyond absurd; at any given time there were a dozen or more cars driving around the cul de sac waiting for someone to leave so they could snatch a parking spot. I was back at Zion for parts of six days in early May, 2011 and it was a night and day experience. I walked the full length of the canyon road more than once and, other than the areas around the bus stops, I scarcely saw a soul given the vehicle restrictions; it was possible to get a real sense of solitude, something that was totally lacking in 1998 when there was constant parade of vehicles.

So, again, I not only have no problem with the bus system, my sense is that it makes being in Zion Canyon a much more pleasant experience. But I have no idea how someone runs a 12-attendee workshop in the canyon given those same limitations.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:23 am
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I stopped running workshops inside National Parks a couple of years back - it is just too difficult, many are too crowded, and there is great inconsistency in how the rules, both the federal ones, and the park specific ones, are enforced from ranger to ranger.  Even my own visits to National Parks has dropped from as many as 8 per year to maybe one or two, and usually those are the more obscure ones, but even those are starting to strain with the number of people visiting them without the infrastructure in place to handle them.

I went to Zion last year and the place was a complete madhouse - it was more like Walmart when the Black Friday doors open then any sort of tranquil experience.  Traffic to Springdale from the West is backed up as much as 15 miles in the summer months.  It's actually worse in many ways then the south rim of the Grand Canyon or parts of Great Smoky Mountains NP.
 

by Mike in O on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:57 pm
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Here is a clarification from Park officials
https://www.dpreview.com/news/684956174 ... strictions
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:30 pm
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A very informative article on the current state of the tripod situation at Zion:
https://www.outdoorphotographer.com/on- ... dium=email
 

by Ed Cordes on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:47 pm
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Interesting article E.J. I totally understand the need for these regulations and sympathize with the NPS people in trying to balance all the entities and factors they must address. Very disappointing to learn of your experience in Zion. We were there a few decades ago - before the digital age - and loved it. Perhaps a trip after Labor day or before Mid may would be less crowded?
Remember, a little mild insanity keeps us healthy
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:55 am
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Ed Cordes wrote:Interesting article E.J.  I totally understand the need for these regulations and sympathize with the NPS people in trying to balance all the entities and factors they must address.  Very disappointing to learn of your experience in Zion.  We were there a few decades ago - before the digital age - and loved it.  Perhaps a trip after Labor day or before Mid may would be less crowded?
Less crowded, yes but still overcrowded in all but the winter.
 

by Rocky Sharwell on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:53 am
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Ed Cordes wrote:Interesting article E.J.  I totally understand the need for these regulations and sympathize with the NPS people in trying to balance all the entities and factors they must address.  Very disappointing to learn of your experience in Zion.  We were there a few decades ago - before the digital age - and loved it.  Perhaps a trip after Labor day or before Mid may would be less crowded?
I was there in late September on a Sunday-it was like the mall at Christmas.  I might go back this year in November ..
Rocky Sharwell
 

by E.J. Peiker on Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:20 am
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Rocky Sharwell wrote: I was there in late September on a Sunday-it was like the mall at Christmas.  I might go back this year in November ..
As I wrote earlier, in summer in the middle of the week, the traffic coming in from the west backs up as much as 15 miles from Springdale starting around 8:00AM
 

by Rocky Sharwell on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:41 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Rocky Sharwell wrote: I was there in late September on a Sunday-it was like the mall at Christmas.  I might go back this year in November ..
As I wrote earlier, in summer in the middle of the week, the traffic coming in from the west backs up as much as 15 miles from Springdale starting around 8:00AM

I forgot to put that I came in from the East. 
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by sdaconsulting on Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:09 am
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E.J. Peiker wrote:I stopped running workshops inside National Parks a couple of years back - it is just too difficult, many are too crowded, and there is great inconsistency in how the rules, both the federal ones, and the park specific ones, are enforced from ranger to ranger.  Even my own visits to National Parks has dropped from as many as 8 per year to maybe one or two, and usually those are the more obscure ones, but even those are starting to strain with the number of people visiting them without the infrastructure in place to handle them.

I went to Zion last year and the place was a complete madhouse - it was more like Walmart when the Black Friday doors open then any sort of tranquil experience.  Traffic to Springdale from the West is backed up as much as 15 miles in the summer months.  It's actually worse in many ways then the south rim of the Grand Canyon or parts of Great Smoky Mountains NP.
I spend a lot of time in the Smokies at all times of the year and I don't really run into traffic issues very often.

The only place that gets pretty bad is the Cades Cove loop, but that's mostly on weekend days after 9-10 AM, and by far the best time to visit the Cove is at first light.

I think a few of the most popular western parks are just overrun by Californians and other tourists.
Matthew Cromer
 

by E.J. Peiker on Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:19 pm
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sdaconsulting wrote:
E.J. Peiker wrote:I stopped running workshops inside National Parks a couple of years back - it is just too difficult, many are too crowded, and there is great inconsistency in how the rules, both the federal ones, and the park specific ones, are enforced from ranger to ranger.  Even my own visits to National Parks has dropped from as many as 8 per year to maybe one or two, and usually those are the more obscure ones, but even those are starting to strain with the number of people visiting them without the infrastructure in place to handle them.

I went to Zion last year and the place was a complete madhouse - it was more like Walmart when the Black Friday doors open then any sort of tranquil experience.  Traffic to Springdale from the West is backed up as much as 15 miles in the summer months.  It's actually worse in many ways then the south rim of the Grand Canyon or parts of Great Smoky Mountains NP.
I spend a lot of time in the Smokies at all times of the year and I don't really run into traffic issues very often.

The only place that gets pretty bad is the Cades Cove loop, but that's mostly on weekend days after 9-10 AM, and by far the best time to visit the Cove is at first light.

I think a few of the most popular western parks are just overrun by Californians and other tourists.
In the west, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Zion, and Grand Canyon can be almost unbearable at times, especially in the summer.
 

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