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by Ron Poppe on Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:04 am
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https://roadslesstraveled.us/tonto-nati ... ds-closed/

I found this article to be very disturbing, our National Forests are being exploited by foreign companies and according to the article do not have to adhere to current environmental standards.  I suspect some of Arizona's past and current elected representatives (both parties) are benefiting from this under the table deal.  
Ron
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by E.J. Peiker on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:02 pm
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Ron Poppe wrote:https://roadslesstraveled.us/tonto-nati ... ds-closed/

I found this article to be very disturbing, our National Forests are being exploited by foreign companies and according to the article do not have to adhere to current environmental standards.  I suspect some of Arizona's past and current elected representatives (both parties) are benefiting from this under the table deal.  
I live where the photos were taken in the article (my girlfriend actually lives in the area where they were taken and we spend a lot of time in the area) and if you go to my website you can see a ton of photos from this area.  Having lived in AZ for the last 23 years, it's definitely not both parties that has been pro exploitation of federal lands.  One state representative that represents the area that includes the White Mountains, one of the state's most beautiful areas, even wrote a bill to deforest the entire state to "prevent wildfires and improve air quality".  When her finances were dug into a bit, it became clear that her largest financial contributor was the logging industry.  Arizona is a VERY corrupt place when it comes to politics - don't even get me started on our corporation commission which is stacked with representatives of the two major electricity companies and has been called out as one of the most corrupt government agencies in the entire USA.

As far as the current big fight in AZ, and it has been raging for at least 15 years but really stepped up in the Ryan Zinke/Scott Pruitt era, is to allow uranium mining in and around the Grand Canyon.  The entire delegation from one party in both state and federal positions are for doing this even though the last time there was a referendum on this, probably about 5 years ago now, over 80% of Arizonan's voted against this.  Yet this delegation of congressman and senators (state and federal) continue to push forward and are now attempting to do the same thing that Utah representatives did with Grand Staircase and Bears Ears which also was pushed hard by mining interests and.  At this point, it is likely that Uranium Mining will soon be done around the Colorado River on federal protected land all around the Grand Canyon and they will continue to push until they are also mining in the actual National Park.

P.S.  Here is a link to a picture of what Freeport MacMoRan is doing to the Apache Sitgrave National Forest:
https://www.mininghistoryassociation.or ... 0Large.jpg
 

by Mike in O on Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:11 pm
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A Chilean mogul with connections to the Kushners (Trump) has just been given permission to mine near the Boundary Waters in Minnesota.https://www.twincities.com/2017/07/15/f ... -heats-up/
 

by WDCarrier on Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:23 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:
Ron Poppe wrote:https://roadslesstraveled.us/tonto-nati ... ds-closed/

I found this article to be very disturbing, our National Forests are being exploited by foreign companies and according to the article do not have to adhere to current environmental standards.  I suspect some of Arizona's past and current elected representatives (both parties) are benefiting from this under the table deal.  
I live where the photos were taken in the article (my girlfriend actually lives in the area where they were taken and we spend a lot of time in the area) and if you go to my website you can see a ton of photos from this area.  Having lived in AZ for the last 23 years, it's definitely not both parties that has been pro exploitation of federal lands.  One state representative that represents the area that includes the White Mountains, one of the state's most beautiful areas, even wrote a bill to deforest the entire state to "prevent wildfires and improve air quality".  When her finances were dug into a bit, it became clear that her largest financial contributor was the logging industry.  Arizona is a VERY corrupt place when it comes to politics - don't even get me started on our corporation commission which is stacked with representatives of the two major electricity companies and has been called out as one of the most corrupt government agencies in the entire USA.

As far as the current big fight in AZ, and it has been raging for at least 15 years but really stepped up in the Ryan Zinke/Scott Pruitt era, is to allow uranium mining in and around the Grand Canyon.  The entire delegation from one party in both state and federal positions are for doing this even though the last time there was a referendum on this, probably about 5 years ago now, over 80% of Arizonan's voted against this.  Yet this delegation of congressman and senators (state and federal) continue to push forward and are now attempting to do the same thing that Utah representatives did with Grand Staircase and Bears Ears which also was pushed hard by mining interests and.  At this point, it is likely that Uranium Mining will soon be done around the Colorado River on federal protected land all around the Grand Canyon and they will continue to push until they are also mining in the actual National Park.

P.S.  Here is a link to a picture of what Freeport MacMoRan is doing to the Apache Sitgrave National Forest:
https://www.mininghistoryassociation.or ... 0Large.jpg
As a former biologist for the Arizona Game and Fish Department; a former resident of that State; and a concerned American citizen, I am appalled at the rapid destruction of our public lands that is currently occurring, particularly in the west and in Alaska.  I recall the horrendous air pollution days in The Valley of the Sun, politically blamed on auto emissions until it stopped the day after the copper smelters were closed in Globe and Miami.  And you’re right, there’s basically only one political entity to blame.
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:29 am
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Here's what it looks like in many parts of Arizona right next to protected lands - can you tell where the border of the National Monument is?  (Hint: trace the eastern edge of the lighter colored mining area)  This is one of the targeted national monuments that Zinke et. al want to eliminate altogether to allow the mine to basically decapitate it.  It's not hard to see why somebody deep in the pockets of mining and oil exploration wants to do that.  Below the map is a photo of mine of this natural treasure:
Image
Image
Image
 

by WDCarrier on Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:50 pm
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The undoing of a century of environmental protection. But, gosh, we'll all have a couple dollars more for a burger at tax time!
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by SantaFeJoe on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:34 pm
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Too bad the the ECE forum was closed down and archived!!! There is definitely a need for awareness of these kinds of subjects by everyone in the country, but does this thread fit in with the guidelines for the forums?

https://www.naturescapes.net/informatio ... uidelines/

From the second paragraph:

"The forums are intended for the sole purpose of nature photography. Discussion or debate on other topics, such as politics or religion, should not take place in the forums."

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by Mike in O on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:47 pm
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SantaFeJoe wrote:Too bad the the ECE forum was closed down and archived!!! There is definitely a need for awareness of these kinds of subjects by everyone in the country, but does this thread fit in with the guidelines for the forums?

https://www.naturescapes.net/informatio ... uidelines/

From the second paragraph:

"The forums are intended for the sole purpose of nature photography. Discussion or debate on other topics, such as politics or religion, should not take place in the forums."

Joe
People in the East don't seem to care what happens to our Western lands.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:52 pm
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Joe, I considered the same thing before posting but one could ask if this is politics or environmental preservation with photographic theme.  I know it's tough to separate environmental protection from politics in this topsy turvy world, but as nature photographers, we do have to be aware and share an awareness of environmental topics that impact our passion.  Not talking about the decimation of the natural treasures that we love to photograph and has been ramped up to previously unparalleled levels on a nature photography site almost seems like negligence.  We started to get way off topic in the old ECE forum into things that were at best remotely linked to photography.  This is directly linked and threatens our craft.  My 2 cents....
 

by SantaFeJoe on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:57 pm
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Mike in O wrote: People in the East don't seem to care what happens to our Western lands.
I absolutely agree, but I would leave out "seem to".

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by E.J. Peiker on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:00 pm
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Mike in O wrote:
SantaFeJoe wrote:Too bad the the ECE forum was closed down and archived!!! There is definitely a need for awareness of these kinds of subjects by everyone in the country, but does this thread fit in with the guidelines for the forums?

https://www.naturescapes.net/informatio ... uidelines/

From the second paragraph:

"The forums are intended for the sole purpose of nature photography. Discussion or debate on other topics, such as politics or religion, should not take place in the forums."

Joe
People in the East don't seem to care what happens to our Western lands.
I think that is too broad.  Politicians in the east and west care very much as long as they stand to gain personally from it.  I think other's in the east would care just as much if they had the same first hand knowledge of what is happening that we do... 
 

by WDCarrier on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:45 pm
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We've played the three-monkeys game too long (see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil) for the sake of political correctness. It's time to realize we're dealing with irreversible effects, most of them having a profound effect on the very subjects we focus our efforts on. Time to get tough!
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by signgrap on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:57 pm
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Mike in O wrote:People in the East don't seem to care what happens to our Western lands.
I think that is a generalization that is inaccurate at best. Being from the east I see/know lots of people who are very concerned about what's happening to our public lands whether they be in the east or west. I bet that the percentage of people who support conservation organisations are at least the same in the east and west. 
Dick Ludwig
 

by SantaFeJoe on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:12 pm
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E.J. Peiker wrote:Joe, I considered the same thing before posting but one could ask if this is politics or environmental preservation with photographic theme.  I know it's tough to separate environmental protection from politics in this topsy turvy world, but as nature photographers, we do have to be aware and share an awareness of environmental topics that impact our passion.  Not talking about the decimation of natural treasures that we love to photograph and has been ramped up to previously unparalleled levels on a nature photography site almost seems like negligence.  We started to get way off topic in the old ECE forum into things that were at best remotely linked to photography.  This is directly linked and threatens our craft.  My 2 cents....
Thanks for your response, E.J.  I'm really with you guys, despite the question. Chaco Canyon here in NW New Mexico is under the same threat and it's from the oil and gas industry. This is really close to Bisti Badlands where there are many delicate formations that would probably topple from fracking and the associated earthquakes. There is so much to be concerned with, not only as photographers, but just in preserving our special places. I do disagree with you that ECE was only remotely linked to photography. Just look at the topics here, just before it was closed:

viewforum.php?f=37

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
 

by Andrew_5488 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:56 pm
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Ron Poppe wrote:https://roadslesstraveled.us/tonto-nati ... ds-closed/

I found this article to be very disturbing, our National Forests are being exploited by foreign companies and according to the article do not have to adhere to current environmental standards.  I suspect some of Arizona's past and current elected representatives (both parties) are benefiting from this under the table deal.  
So if it was american company everything would be kosher ?
There's no need to suspect anything. That's how the game is played. We don't have two parties.
We have one party - party of the money.
 

by E.J. Peiker on Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:43 pm
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Andrew_5488 wrote:
Ron Poppe wrote:https://roadslesstraveled.us/tonto-nati ... ds-closed/

I found this article to be very disturbing, our National Forests are being exploited by foreign companies and according to the article do not have to adhere to current environmental standards.  I suspect some of Arizona's past and current elected representatives (both parties) are benefiting from this under the table deal.  
So if it was american company everything would be kosher ?
There's no need to suspect anything. That's how the game is played. We don't have two parties.
We have one party - party of the money.
Personally I don't care if it's an American Company or not, we should not be destroying our national treasures or be irresponsible with the environment.  As photographers, which is what this site is about and what I want to try to keep posts like this about, we should be very concerned.  Again, since this was written specifically about my state, Arizona, it is only one of the two major parties that is pushing this with opposition from the other major party. The minor parties, and the vast majority of Arizona's residents are also against this.  Yet it is moving forward at a previously unprecedented pace.
 

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