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by OntPhoto on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:04 pm
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SantaFeJoe wrote:
dougc wrote:If using callers had any serious effect on the life of birds we would be waist deep in dead birds...
Like when a shotgun is involved! :)
Yep.  Hunting, bird culls, etc. 
 

by Alan Murphy on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:35 am
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Karl Egressy wrote:They do "pissing" which brings many birds close to the observer and they also use recorded calls
as well as bird calls and song imitations with their mouth.

I knew I was doing it wrong! I've been pishing all these years. I need to give your way a try :-)
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by Karl Egressy on Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:21 am
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Alan Murphy wrote:
Karl Egressy wrote:They do "pissing" which brings many birds close to the observer and they also use recorded calls
as well as bird calls and song imitations with their mouth.

I knew I was doing it wrong! I've been pishing all these years. I need to give your way a try :-)
Alan, I appreciate your humor.
It made me LOL especially after I read my spelling right.
Our brain is funny: it is spelled wrong we still see it right.
Thanks for pointing out my typo and thanks for making me laugh in this gloomy morning.
Love it, it made my day.


Last edited by Karl Egressy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by WDCarrier on Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:20 am
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SantaFeJoe wrote:Isn't it ironic that we can discuss how photographers can cause or not cause stress on birds and, at the same time, in an adjacent thread talk about using three or four flashes within extreme proximity to a hummingbird to get the best shot?

Joe
Yay, Joe!
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:04 pm
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I was photographing a great gray owl recently.  A birder/photographer made a sort of squeaking sound by bringing his fingers to his pursed lips.  Was I ever impressed as it worked each and every time.  Apparently the sound is to imitate a wounded small animal like a rabbit.  I asked him to do it again and then recorded it on my iPhone.  Yesterday while photographing snowshoe hares I decided to see if such a sound would have any effect on the hare.  The hare perked up and dashed into the brush.  Educational.
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:25 pm
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No Text


Last edited by OntPhoto on Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by Mike in O on Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:52 pm
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OntPhoto wrote:Unless owls becomes vegetarians, they will continue to eat small mammals including mice and voles.  On the subject of feeding owls, as one birder in the article clearly laid out, he has never seen an owl die from being overfed but has seen plenty that die due to starvation.

Just an education about predator/prey interaction.  There needs to be a die off of predators to constantly balance the ratio or catastrophe will happen.  The prey need to be in much greater abundance than the predator for the balancing act to be effective.  Though it may seem cruel, owls have a very high mortality rate in their 1st 2 years as do most predators.  Man interfering can be really unsettling for natural order of things.  
 

by Karl Egressy on Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:27 pm
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Just for the record:
According to the Environment Canada report on Avian mortality, 270 million birds get killed in Canada each year.
Main causes are the following:

Cats:                                             200 million (mostly domestic cats
Power line collision:                       25 million
Collision with houses, buildings:    25 million
Collision with Vehicles:                   14 million
Game bird hunting:                           5 million
Agriculture pesticides:                      2.7 million
Agricultural mowing:                          2.2 million young birds
Commercial forestry:                          1.4 million
Communication towers:                          220.000

So if you drive a car, have a house, work in a building, use electricity, use iphone, ALLOW YOUR CAT OUT, you kill birds.
You can add habitat destruction and some others and you get the picture.
I'm pretty sure the record is similar in USA as well.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/9-leading-causes-of-bird-deaths-in-canada-1.1873654
 

by Mike in O on Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:14 pm
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Karl Egressy wrote:Just for the record:
According to the Environment Canada report on Avian mortality, 270 million birds get killed in Canada each year.
Main causes are the following:

Cats:                                             200 million (mostly domestic cats
Power line collision:                       25 million
Collision with houses, buildings:    25 million
Collision with Vehicles:                   14 million
Game bird hunting:                           5 million
Agriculture pesticides:                      2.7 million
Agricultural mowing:                          2.2 million young birds
Commercial forestry:                          1.4 million
Communication towers:                          220.000

So if you drive a car, have a house, work in a building, use electricity, use iphone, ALLOW YOUR CAT OUT, you kill birds.
You can add habitat destruction and some others and you get the picture.
I'm pretty sure the record is similar in USA as well.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/9-leading-causes-of-bird-deaths-in-canada-1.1873654
With all those birds dying, it probably is a good idea to shoot as many raptors as you can to keep everything in balance. :shock:
 

by Karl Egressy on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:18 pm
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Hi Mike in O,

How about Cats?
Seventy-four percent of birds are killed by cats. (200 million out of 270 million)
I have had Cats for the last twenty-two years and they never left the house.
Meantime I see my neighbor's cats at my bird feeder stations every day and I cannot do anything about it..
 

by Mike in O on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:34 pm
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Karl Egressy wrote:Hi Mike in O,

How about Cats?
Seventy-four percent of birds are killed by cats. (200 million out of 270 million)
I have had Cats for the last twenty-two years and they never left the house.
Meantime I see my neighbor's cats at my bird feeder stations every day and I cannot do anything about it..


What do you want me to say, shoot your neighbor?
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:08 pm
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Mike in O wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:Unless owls becomes vegetarians, they will continue to eat small mammals including mice and voles.  On the subject of feeding owls, as one birder in the article clearly laid out, he has never seen an owl die from being overfed but has seen plenty that die due to starvation.

Just an education about predator/prey interaction.  There needs to be a die off of predators to constantly balance the ratio or catastrophe will happen.  The prey need to be in much greater abundance than the predator for the balancing act to be effective.  Though it may seem cruel, owls have a very high mortality rate in their 1st 2 years as do most predators.  Man interfering can be really unsettling for natural order of things.  
No Text here.


Last edited by OntPhoto on Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by OntPhoto on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:12 pm
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Mike in O wrote:
Karl Egressy wrote:Hi Mike in O,

How about Cats?
Seventy-four percent of birds are killed by cats. (200 million out of 270 million)
I have had Cats for the last twenty-two years and they never left the house.
Meantime I see my neighbor's cats at my bird feeder stations every day and I cannot do anything about it..


What do you want me to say, shoot your neighbor?
No Text here.


Last edited by OntPhoto on Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

by Mike in O on Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:38 pm
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OntPhoto wrote:
Mike in O wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:Unless owls becomes vegetarians, they will continue to eat small mammals including mice and voles.  On the subject of feeding owls, as one birder in the article clearly laid out, he has never seen an owl die from being overfed but has seen plenty that die due to starvation.

Just an education about predator/prey interaction.  There needs to be a die off of predators to constantly balance the ratio or catastrophe will happen.  The prey need to be in much greater abundance than the predator for the balancing act to be effective.  Though it may seem cruel, owls have a very high mortality rate in their 1st 2 years as do most predators.  Man interfering can be really unsettling for natural order of things.  
Man has interfered with nature for thousands of years from over-hunting to lost of habitat and various other means.  The subject of this discussion is a pittance in the big picture of what you speak of.
Man is not just interfering with nature, we are part of it.  Your cats which I am sure you take great pride and care mightily about
and never let them out will consume a great tuna dinner tonight (tuna is on the verge of collapsing) or a chicken dinner that was raised with inhumane conditions.  We can only make a small dent in our living space and I would hope that everyone of us when we have a choice think of the animal we are photographing and thank whoever for the opportunity.
 

by OntPhoto on Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:51 am
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Mike in O wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:
Mike in O wrote:
OntPhoto wrote:Unless owls becomes vegetarians, they will continue to eat small mammals including mice and voles.  On the subject of feeding owls, as one birder in the article clearly laid out, he has never seen an owl die from being overfed but has seen plenty that die due to starvation.

Just an education about predator/prey interaction.  There needs to be a die off of predators to constantly balance the ratio or catastrophe will happen.  The prey need to be in much greater abundance than the predator for the balancing act to be effective.  Though it may seem cruel, owls have a very high mortality rate in their 1st 2 years as do most predators.  Man interfering can be really unsettling for natural order of things.  
Man has interfered with nature for thousands of years from over-hunting to lost of habitat and various other means.  The subject of this discussion is a pittance in the big picture of what you speak of.
Man is not just interfering with nature, we are part of it.  Your cats which I am sure you take great pride and care mightily about
and never let them out will consume a great tuna dinner tonight (tuna is on the verge of collapsing) or a chicken dinner that was raised with inhumane conditions.  We can only make a small dent in our living space and I would hope that everyone of us when we have a choice think of the animal we are photographing and thank whoever for the opportunity.
No one is disagreeing with feeding the cat well or that tuna is being over-fished or that many chickens are raised in inhumane conditions or that we are not thankful for the opportunities to see and enjoy nature.  But the topic of the thread was about how some folks feed birds, owls or use calls to attract birds in closer or to help find them.  Exercise caution and everything in moderation.  While I am not feeding owls myself, those who do are actually helping the owls survive a cold and harsh winter.  Yes, some may do it for selfish reasons or for commercial gain but the end result nevertheless is that there is one less hungry owl and that it gets to fly back north and hopefully be making more of its kind.  The owls are down here for ONE reason and one reason only.  They're not on vacation.  They're here for survival - food.  I think few can disagree with that. 

PS.  The article may have exaggerated the actual reality which is that very few incidents as mentioned in the article actually occur.  I hear about the occasional one only.  For the most part, people have come to accept that we can agree to disagree.  If it were an illegal activity, then that's a whole matter altogether but because it is legal and most people do it responsibly, these sorts of altercations are rare.  Reading the article, I recall some of those stories (third party only) go back 4 years or more. 
 

by dougc on Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:42 am
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This thread has become extremely amusing, please keep it up...
 

by Karl Egressy on Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:51 pm
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If you are interested of this topic you can read:
Silence of Songbirds
by Bridget Stutchbury.
It is a sad story but very informative at the same time.
She is a University professor, has dual citizenship, has properties in both countries, Canada and USA, that is.
She spent a lifetime with the help of her students to do the research here in Canada and USA as well as in South American countries where our songbirds migrate to.
I promise, you will be shocked by the horror humans do to birds, especially in South America unfortunately.

One more thing.
Let's pretend just for the argument's sake that 27 birds get killed by pishing, playing bird songs and feeding Owls and Raptors per year.
It would represent 0.00001 percent of the total birds killed per year.
Of course no studies have ever done to substantiate any death associated with the aforementioned deeds of birders/photographers,
therefore it is rendered as a fallacy.

Case closed as I'm concerned.
Have fun further debating.

Best,
Karl Egressy
 

by Andrew_5488 on Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:48 pm
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Karl Egressy wrote:One more thing.
Let's pretend just for the argument's sake that 27 birds get killed by pishing, playing bird songs and feeding Owls and Raptors per year.
It would represent 0.00001 percent of the total birds killed per year.
Of course no studies have ever done to substantiate any death associated with the aforementioned deeds of birders/photographers,
therefore it is rendered as a fallacy.

Case closed as I'm concerned.
Have fun further debating.
So what's your point here ? We don't have to care ? 
What's the number ? Is 100k dead birds still good ?
I guess this summer I won't care how I behave while photographing tern colony. Hey, maybe I get to chase some piping plovers !
And those big black skimmers faking broken wings-ohh, I don't have to worry about those !

My believe is that 1 dead bird is 1 bird too many and while people will argue if we photographers have effect on well being of birds,
we definitely have effect on other people. So next time you're doing something, some other photographers will pick it up and say hey
if this guy with big lens is doing it, it must be OK.
How about we all stop being selfish. Just a thought.
 

by OntPhoto on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:31 am
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Karl Egressy wrote:If you are interested of this topic you can read:
Silence of Songbirds
by Bridget Stutchbury.
It is a sad story but very informative at the same time.
She is a University professor, has dual citizenship, has properties in both countries, Canada and USA, that is.
She spent a lifetime with the help of her students to do the research here in Canada and USA as well as in South American countries where our songbirds migrate to.
I promise, you will be shocked by the horror humans do to birds, especially in South America unfortunately.

One more thing.
Let's pretend just for the argument's sake that 27 birds get killed by pishing, playing bird songs and feeding Owls and Raptors per year.
It would represent 0.00001 percent of the total birds killed per year.
Of course no studies have ever done to substantiate any death associated with the aforementioned deeds of birders/photographers,
therefore it is rendered as a fallacy.

Case closed as I'm concerned.
Have fun further debating.

Best,
Karl Egressy
Someone brought up the subject of piping plovers.  That's an endangered species and is rightly afforded the protection it needs and deserves.  Especially on its breeding grounds.  On the other-hand people are able to get close to pigeons, ring-billed gulls, starlings, crows, blue-jays, mallards and house sparrows to name a few.  People feed these birds and observe them up close when they can.  I think it is a natural instinct for us to want to see, observe, connect and learn about all the various creatures around us.  People care about the welfare of birds which is why we have bird feeders which at the same time affords us great close-up looks.  Some of the birds even feed right out of our hands (chickadees, gray jays, some downy woodpeckers, white-breasted nuthatches, red-breasted nuthatches, etc.).  It can be a great way for people (both adults and children) to connect to our natural world.  You can observe all these birds from far away but the experience is not the same.

I eat fish, chicken, duck, shellfish, pork (bacon, pork chops), steak, hamburgers and occasionally lamb in addition to other meats.  That thing on your plate, at one time it was walking, flying, crawling or swimming.  Unless you don't eat any of the aforementioned, the argument about one less bird or one less animal....  I also eat fruits and vegetables.  Can we not kill an animal or bird to satisfy our own selfish cravings?  Sure, there are vegetarians who do it all the time and some are well known athletes.  It's a choice.  And just because we eat these once living creatures doesn't mean we don't care about them.  We still want to see them treated humanely and not packed into such tight enclosures where all they do is eat until they're ready to be slaughtered for our consumption.

We all experience our natural world in different ways.  Falconers keep captive birds of prey like falcons and a variety of hawks.  I respect their practice but personally I would like to see all birds free and wild.  That's just me. Then again we keep dogs as pets in small areas like in our home.  Cats too.  Some of us keep snakes, birds, reptiles, fish, hamsters and a variety of critters as pets too.  I think people just have this desire to have this close connection with animals and birds.  This same desire extends to outdoors too when we feed ducks, birds, squirrels, chipmunks etc. 



 
 

by Timothy M King on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:15 pm
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If birds were distressed by their own bird song/call then point pelee in early may would be full of distressed birds.
 

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