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by Swissblad on Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:33 am
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Just saw this on Birdlife:

http://www.birdlife.org/europe-and-cent ... der-threat

Absolutely insane......

Please sign the petition!

Thanks, Sinuhe
 

by Mike in O on Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:04 am
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Has Norway completely abandoned its rules for agribusiness interests? They still feast on "bloody Wilson" in the face of worldwide condemnation but this is insane. I live in an area where Golden Eagles are common (as well as sheep) and people appreciate the work they do in controlling hare populations.
 

by Paul Fusco on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:12 am
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Wow
But, can people in the US say anything since we are allowing "acceptable levels of kills" of bald and golden eagles in the name of wind energy development?

Paul
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by Mike in O on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:46 am
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Paul Fusco wrote:Wow
But, can people in the US say anything since we are allowing "acceptable levels of kills" of bald and golden eagles in the name of wind energy development?

Paul
You have a good point Paul...a local wind project was to allow the death of 5 eagles..  They said it was for the good of the eagles since it would be shut down if they crossed that line.  I guess numbering the kills is better than carte blanc allowing of endless killing while the project operates.  The California wind turbine farm by San Francisco was a relentless killer of Golden Eagles (helped somewhat by new towers).  Counting dead eagles falls on the operators and we know they will report every kill   :(
 

by WDCarrier on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:23 pm
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Isn't US interference in this nonsensical action a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Here in the Pacific Northwest the USFWS has instigated a program to shoot barred owls that are found in areas occupied by spotted owls. "Biologists" in the USFWS claim the barred owl to be a "invasive species" although it is native to North America and, up until recently, ranged within a hundred miles of spotted owl habitat. Barred owls and spotted owls occupy the same function in the forested ecosystem, a nocturnal predator that feeds primarily on arboreal rodents. The ecosystem doesn't give a darn whether the critter is barred or spotted. Starlins are invasive species; house sparrows are invasive species; collared doves are invasive species; barred owls are not!
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by Mike in O on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:40 pm
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Barred owls are generalist hunters native to eastern N.America and followed settlement west through Canada and once in the Pacific NW dropped down into Spotted Owl territory because of the over logging. The closely related Spotted Owl is a pacific coast critter divided into Mexican and Northern. The Northern adapted to old growth forest (very little left) and is a specialist feeder (Rocky, the flying squirrel). The only reason the ill advised killing of Barred owls is taking place is because of the great upheaval that protecting the Spotted Owl caused socially in the logging communities.
 

by Mike in O on Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:40 pm
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Here is another petition for USA to try stop the slaughter of the Northern Rocky Grizzly for trophy hunters
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... ne-grizzly
 

by WDCarrier on Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:26 pm
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Mike in O wrote:Barred owls are generalist hunters native to eastern N.America and followed settlement west through Canada and once in the Pacific NW dropped down into Spotted Owl territory because of the over logging.  The closely related Spotted Owl is a pacific coast critter divided into Mexican and Northern.  The Northern adapted to old growth forest (very little left) and is a specialist feeder (Rocky, the flying squirrel).  The only reason the ill advised killing of Barred owls is taking place is because of the great upheaval that protecting the Spotted Owl caused socially in the logging communities.
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Simply speculation with little, if any, hard data to support it.  Spotted owls are also generalists. In the project I worked on one pair primarily foraged on bats. Spotted owls in southern AZ are as different from the northern owl as barred owls from the northern owl, both in food habits and habitat.  If, in fact, forest practices resulted in the barred owl "invasion" then why are they occupying spotted owl territories in PNW old-growth forests?  In the past we had the Bullocks oriole in the west and the Baltimore oriole in the east.  Now most ornithologists believe them to be conspecific.  No one ever suggested we begin shooting either one to prevent potential genetic intermingling.[/font]  Barred owls utilize almost identical habitats in northern Idaho as spotted owls do in northern Washington…and have for centuries.
[font=Arial, sans-serif]The issue is that neo-biologists have forgotten the word “function.”  They rely on DNA sampling and phenotypic variations rather than what the ecosystem function of any critter is.  The ill-advised program to “play God” and stem the tide of barred owls (revered from the east to the Rockies in a wide variety of habitats) is, in my mind, idiotic.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by Mike in O on Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:08 pm
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They are not the same bird and the dividing characteristic is generalist, Barred owls seem to able to live anywhere (they are all over the city of Bend,. Never have seen a Spotted owl in town, though they are somewhat common in the Sisters Ranger District (I know you are aware), a few miles to West. Saying they are not invasive is like saying Snapping turtles, Red sliders, or Bullfrogs (all causing harm) are not invasive because they have them in the Eastern US.
 

by WDCarrier on Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:14 pm
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Mike in O wrote:They are not the same bird and the dividing characteristic is generalist, Barred owls seem to able to live anywhere (they are all over the city of Bend,.  Never have seen a Spotted owl in town, though they are somewhat common in the Sisters Ranger District (I know you are aware), a few miles to West.  Saying they are not invasive is like saying Snapping turtles, Red sliders, or Bullfrogs (all causing harm) are not invasive because they have them in the Eastern US.
Interesting.  Have they always been in Bend?  Knowing that country as I do I would have a hard time believing that it was simply logging practices that has allowed the barred owl to occupy that area.  But, you're right as to their broad range of habitat conditions.  My question is, since they can and do now occupy OG spotted owl habitat, if the displacement wouldn't have occurred naturally anyway and how much of that can be attributed to natural issues vs. human-induced habitat change.  It seems to make more sense to shoot gt. horned owls that "invade" areas where forests have been opened due to logging.

I charted spotted owl requirements many years ago for the California plan to defuse the "old-growth" issue.  What spotted owls require for occupancy includes (and may be limited to):

1)  An area where they can maintain thermal regulation.  In the north it's dense OG forests; in southern California and Arizona it's dense riparian zones.
2)  An area with an available food supply, primarily arboreal rodents (but Steve Layman's work showed they did use other critters).
3)  An area with suitable nest sites.  In  the PNW, hollows in large trees; in So. Cal, rocky caves in riverine canyons (w/ dense riparian) and occasionally hollows in large oaks and cottonwoods)
4) An area devoid of spotted owl predators (e.g. gt. horned owl/goshawk).

In the PNW all these requirements are found in OG coniferous forests; in N. Calif. such conditions can occur in 2nd growth redwoods; In So. Cal and AZ all these requirements are found in riparian canyons.  The owl doesn't give a RF how old the vegetation is.
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” MLK[/font]
 

by Mike in O on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:02 pm
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The Barred Owls started showing up about 15 ? years ago (in Bend). The only place that Spotted owls are found on the Eastside of the Cascades is the Sisters Ranger District (Camp Sherman area) an area not known for old growth so they are an anomaly. Is the Mexican Spotted owl (those in S.calif and AZ) distinct in DNA analysis from the Northern owls? Since the barred owl and spotted can and do hybridize, are more aggressive and will attack the smaller Spotted, the Feds thought a test program in 3 areas was in order. The killing of 3,000 owls is going on right now and will probably not make a bit of difference since the Barred are everywhere and will just fill in the old growth habitat the spotted prefers. It does give employment to the killers on the bright side (sarcasm).
 

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:39 pm
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Swissblad wrote:Just saw this on Birdlife:

http://www.birdlife.org/europe-and-cent ... der-threat

Absolutely insane......

Please sign the petition!

Thanks, Sinuhe
Dear Sinuhe

Don't lose hope.  

Before I start, I want you to know I was glad to sign your petition and pass it on to others I know who feel the same way we do.    

In America, the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) has a branch deceptively named "Wildlife Services".   Literally, USDA's Wildlife Services, working for private businesses, does nothing but murder our beloved wild animals....to the tune of over 3 million wildlife animals per year over the last several years.  Wildlife "Services" (WS) uses snares, poison-laced carcasses, cartridges that explode when bitten on, sending a charge of cyanide into the animals mouth and head and gassing litters of pups in their dens.  WS has indiscriminately murdered thousands of domestic animals,  most notably many people's beloved dogs that just happen to be roaming around, enjoying life.  We fought against WS by writing our Congressional delegates..  Many of Congress tried to stop WS.  But many on the right were swayed by the powerful agricultural lobby here. And so WS simply defied us, even increasing its slaughter of our native wildlife.  

No more !  

We now have the Center for Biological Diversity working on our side on this issue. And the CBD will not fail!  If Americans want to donate to a worthy wildlife conservation organization, I assure all that the CBD is among the very best.   American wildlife conservation has changed in recent years.  To be effective, it often now requires law suits.  If that is what they want then that is what they will get.  The CBD has teeth and it uses them if it has to.  Just look at this legal staff.   When I am comfortable with it, I donate what I can to this organization and I will continue to in the time i have left on this Earth..........because I KNOW beyond a doubt these people are assessing wildlife conservation issues, confronting the involved entities when needed and making decisions to do whatever it takes to bring change...when that is required.  I watched them for years.     

Sinuhe, the following is from the link you provided:

......."this is a result of pressure from sheep and reindeer farmers, who believe a reduction in the number of eagles will lead to a drop in the birds killing their livestock." 


So at least in theory, let us now do some quick wildlife control:

1.  We are going to remove eagles so we will have more sheep and reindeer.  But before we brought in the sheep and the reindeer, we knew the eagles were indigenous.   Were we just hoping that the eagles would not prey on our livestock?  Well, the eagles did.

2.  So now, in theory, when we remove some of these eagles, we believe that we will see an increase in our numbers of sheep and reindeer.  

3.  But if there IS an increase in the numbers of sheep and reindeer, this will provide more food for the remaining eagles, perpetuating the problem. 

It is obviously to all that this just never works.  But I think that the  ag interests are wielding their political power while the political interests do not have the backbone to stand up and speak the truth.  I do not know how the wildlife system works over there.  Here, it is the responsibility of the states and the USFWS.  And they often do not have the backbone to stand up to the business interests.  It is becoming more and more of a problem.  This is why the CBD works.    


So in the situation with the Golden Eagles in Norway, the only way to resolve the issue is to either remove the sheep and reindeer or embark on a program to completely eradicate the native Golden Eagles.  And that is not going to happen.  So, the issue will continue and my guess is that the Norwegian people might have the power to eventually speak up and put an end to the culling of the eagles.  

But if the wildlife in western Europe is owned by the landowner, then this changes the entire thing doesn't it?  And I think this is the case. 

This should be interesting down the road.  


It ain't over till its over...and it ain't over.  


Robert :) 


Last edited by Blck-shouldered Kite on Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 

by Swissblad on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:43 pm
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Thanks for the insightful comments, Robert.

I hope sufficient voices can be mobilised to change the ruling.

We have a magnificent time in norther Norway, and have never seen so many white-tailed eagles.

Golden eagles are much more rare, so I really don't understand the issue.

Best, Sinuhe
 

by david fletcher on Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:42 pm
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another sign up here Sinhue.  Preservation within various countries is usually a blend of a crock of crap and ignorance.  Sheep and reindeer for Norway.   fox hunting and Badger culling in the UK.  Killing the Bison in the US that move from Yellowstone to Montana in the winter.  etc, etc.  pick your country and there will be a controversy that fits.  

I've seen an interesting youtube of a Lynx hunting sheep in Norway, just this week.  Politics and the issues driving decisions is often baffling.  the only thing we can do is make more noise.   


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by Mike in O on Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:45 pm
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Everything is after the Reindeer, 300 killed
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.s ... river_home
 

by OntPhoto on Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:11 pm
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We don't have enough golden eagles here in eastern Ontario,  Ship them over here instead of culling them :-) 
 

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