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7D vs D300 (with updates)

Discussion and reviews of photography equipment and accessories.
Moderators: Greg Downing, E.J. Peiker, Royce Howland

7D vs D300 (with updates)

Postby E.J. Peiker on Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:48 pm

Updates from this morning below in red

I got my hands on a 1 day old 7D today and spent the afternoon working with it and my trusty 300D. This 7D came from the factory with the new 1.1.0 firmware already installed. Overall I was pleased with the camera and it exhibited none of the problems that Royce, Darwin and others have experienced.

Lenses for the 7D were the Sigma 150-500 and the Canon 18-200. I used the Nikon 18-200 for comparison but do note that the Canon 18-200 has been tested to have about 20% better resolution than the Nikon so the Nikon does have a lens bourne disadvantage.

After setting up the 7D properly I did some $5 bill tests and the usual AF type tests. But first some preliminary stuff.

One notices right away when putting the D300 to the eye and the 7D to the eye that the D300 viewfinder vie is WAY bigger. When you switch from the D300 to the 7D it feels like you suddenly backed up and are looking down a tunnel. Or when you go from the 7D to the D300 it feels like the world just opened up for you. I didn't look up the difference in size but qualitatively the D300 has the much bigger projected image onto your eye. Another thing I noted is that the 7D seems to have an awful lot of AF customization options, almost to the point of it being overly complicated for no reason but there are some nice customization features in there. Another thing I noticed during set-up is that Canon now has an option to not allow the shutter speed to go slower than 1/60 sec in Av mode with a flash on - that's a nice safety net that Nikon and others have always had. Figuring out how to turn on the multi-controller for AF settings had me baffled for a while since the custom function for that is NOT in the AF custom functions. Finding some of this stuff in the manual is pretty useless too. On several occasions the index for something pointed to a page that had nothing about the subject in it and other pages that did were not indexed.

Lens calibration came next. The 18-200 required a -5 setting and the 150-500 required a +10 setting using the Moire interference pattern method. None of my Nikon lenses and bodies have ever needed any adjustment. As an aside, I was quite pleased with the AF performance and overall sharpness of the Sigma 150-500. It seems that this is one of the good ones but much more testing would be required in different regimes to be sure.

Next it was on to the $5 bill test. I am hanging onto a crisp old one because the new ones don't have the pattern in the lower right that I like to test. The 7D marginally outresolved the D300 in this test however since the Canon lens, on paper, has significantly higher resolution, at best I can say the two cameras are in the same ballpark but in this test, I give the nod to the 7D. I also noticed that 7D files definitely can handle more sharpening before breaking up and require about twice as much sharpening than the D300 files to get to optimal sharpness before sharpening artifacts occur. This is inline with the theory that the 7D has a very strong AA filter. I didn't test noise beyond a simple blue sky shot at ISO 200 on both and the D300 files were slightly cleaner for noise. One thing I did note that for a given exposure (ISO, SS, aperture), the Canon is about 1/3 stop brighter than the Nikon.

Next it was out to the park for some tracking tests. Coots were willing to oblige and the 7D tracks as well as any Canon I have used if not better. This was using single point, normal, tracking priority settings. Since the Sigma was an f/6.7 lens, I used the Nikon 200-400 with 1.7x and here the 7D with Sigma lens outperformed the 200-400 with 1.7x. However using the 200-400 by itself or the Nikon 500 f/4, there is no comparison in AF, the Nikon absolutely kills it in acquisition and tracking. Unfortunately I didn't have a Canon 500/4 available for an apples to apples comparison but in summary, I was pleased with subject tracking on the water even with the relatively slow Sigma lens. This bodes well for AF with faster lenses.

So overall, I am pleased with what Canon has done with the 7D, at least this 7D since it seems the old QA/QC bugaboo has still not been solved by Canon. As stated before, this particular camera exhibited none of the softness or AF issues that others have noted but I did spend quite some time perfecting the AF with the micro adjustments for each of the two lenses. I would have no hesitation in taking this body out with a Canon 500 IS and TC's for some serious bird/wildlife photography.

I will play with the 7D a little more tomorrow and will add any additional info I come up with.

I had a couple more hours this morning and got to test the cameras capability of tracking flying pigeons. Now I am doing this with an f/6.3 lens at 500mm so my expectations were not high but the experience was actually much better than I expected. Even with a slow lens the camera had no problem staying on the subject even if the background was cluttered as long as I kept the autofocus point on the subject. Similar to all Canon's, if you get off the subject a bit, the camera likes to go to the background and won't ever come back unless you bump the AF button or shutter button if you use that to AF. But if you kept the AF sensor on the subject, it tracked the subject even when relatively small in the frame. In this regard the camera did about as well as a 1D mark IIn and that's with a relatively slow lens so overall the results were very positive.

I did do another look at the viewfinder and I think what it is is that the Canon has a higher eyepoint relief so more of the black frame is in view giving the illusion that the actual image size is smaller. Actually one of my biggest complaints about the D3x vs the 1Ds Mk iii is that as an eyeglass wearer, I can not see the whole frame without moving around a bit on the Nikon and I can on the Canon and sure enough the eyepoint relief spec on the Canon is higher. I think the same is true with the 7D having a higher eyepoint relief spec than the D300.

I did do some tests of AF in lower light (ambient lighting dictated 1/15 sec at ISO 200 and f/8) and found the AF to be effective locking quickly with very little hunting. The conditions weren't dark enough to test it with any worse lighting than that.

I hesitate to post the 100% crops because people will draw the wrong conclusions from them since I have no way to normalize out the Canon 18-200's 2400 l/mm resolution vs the Nikon's 2000 l/mm resolution. This is why I made the statements I did above in the initial posts. But it is clear that the 7D is not by design a camera that is flawed for either focus or resolution which some may have thought based on the findings of some highly talented photographers. I think it is an issue of large sample variation or initial production woes. This specific camera body, since it shipped with the new firmware is clearly not an early run camera and it performs very well.

As for doing the testing with "mainstream" Canon lenses (which they aren't - you are asking for very high end Canon professional lenses ;) ), I did not have those at my disposal but trust me, if it looks great with a Sigma 150-500 and canon 18-200, it will most definitely look good with high end Canon pro lenses.

As I stated in yesterday's post, I would have no problem using the 7D as my primary tool for birds and wildlife.
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Postby thedigitalbean on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:50 am

Thanks for sharing E.J., curious to hear what else you find. Your observations regarding the viewfinder is curious as specifications wise, it works out that the 7D and D300 should have identically sized viewfinders.
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Postby Greg Schneider on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:52 am

I find that interesting as well. Were the lenses you compared the VF with similar in aperture? That would have some effect on the brightness but not on the size.
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Postby Royce Howland on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:59 am

Good to hear, thanks E.J. My hope indeed is that the 7D issues I'm having are just QC and not fundamental design flaws as was the case with the earlier Mk III's. (Aside from the softness which I believe simply is inherent and will require a different level of sharpening.) If I can get my 7D shaped up, my feeling is I will like it for the purposes I bought it. This note helps convince me to keep putting in the effort to get the issues corrected...
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Postby E.J. Peiker on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:04 am

The 18-200 lenses are identical spec wise.

It is possible that the Canon simply has more black frame giving the illusion - I'll look at that tomorrow.
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Postby KK Hui on Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:26 am

Thanks for your review, EJ!
Sounds like Canon has to work double hard to gain back your confidence ... :wink:
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Postby Robert D. Gregg on Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:43 am

Thanks for the review!!

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Postby Justin C on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:34 am

Thanks for the write-up E.J. The performance and capabilities sound encouraging. Looking forward to any further observations you may have with further testing.
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Postby wirinhar on Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:24 am

Thanks for the review and looking forward to hearing more.
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Re: 7D vs D300

Postby Mark Boranyak on Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:52 am

Thanks also me me, E.J. As a current Canon user I have always been jealous of the Nikon viewfinders. They are a joy to use.

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Postby buddy4344 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:10 am

I have a 50D and a 7D. The jump to 7D for me was all about better tracking and low light focusing. E. J. I don't know if you can test low light focusing, but would love to here your thoughts there. Also - while a valued report, it would be great if you could do the testing with more 'main stream' Canon lenses such as a 70-200 2.8, a 100-400 and/or a 500 f4.
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Postby Glenn Bartley on Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:20 am

Can we see 100% crops from the $5 bill?? I'd love to see those :)
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Re: 7D vs D300

Postby DonS on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:15 pm

My 7D has been great. I have already posted my evaluation images of the excellent "low noise - high ISO" capabilities of this camera. And E.J., you remarked how much better the actual results were compared to what you expected.

I use the LensAlign Pro system to insure the best possible lens AF calibration. My 7D needed a couple small tweaks with some lenses. I am very pleased with the AF so far. I will be doing some BIF shooting soon, so I'll be able to evaluate the new AF system in all five modes and multiple settings.

It should be noted that Nikon now has microadjustment of AF on the newer cameras. They would not have added this feature if it was not needed.

I am using the highest quality Canon lenses - 500mm f/4 IS L, 400mm f/5.6 L, 300mm f/2.8 IS L, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L, plus 2xII and 1.4xII extenders. I admit it - I want to produce the highest quality images that I (and my equipment) can create. I am maximizing every technique I know to have sharp, well exposed images. I am biased for Canon. Just as others may be biased for some other brand. You know exactly where I stand. Most importantly, I don't make negative comments about other brands.
Last edited by DonS on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7D vs D300

Postby Andrew McCullough on Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:48 pm

Thanks EJ. I value your opinion.
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Re: 7D vs D300

Postby E.J. Peiker on Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:34 pm

DonS wrote:It should be noted that Nikon now has microadjustment of AF on the newer cameras. They would not have added this feature if it was not needed.

I am using the highest quality Canon lenses - 500mm f/4 IS L, 400mm f/5.6 L, 300mm f/2.8 IS L, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L, plus 2xII and 1.4xII extenders. I admit it - I want to produce the highest quality images that I (and my equipment) can create. I am maximizing every technique I know to have sharp, well exposed images. I am biased for Canon. Just as others may be biased for some other brand. You know exactly where I stand. Most importantly, I don't make negative comments about other brands.


Yes Nikon has offered AF microadjust for two generations of cameras as has Canon. My only point was that in my personal experience no Nikon lens/camera has ever required it and in my personal experience, every Canon lens/body has. Not a big deal since the capability to adjust them is there but may say something about process control between the two companies.

Not sure where you are going with the last paragraph. I hope you don't feel I was dissing the Canon camera but I do point out things that I find are not as good as they could be. I am quite pleased with it actually and it is certainly the best crop factor camera has produced to date if you get one that works the way it should (and I include the 1D Mark III in that list). Hopefully the 1D mark IV will surpass even the 7D.
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Postby buddy4344 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:23 pm

Thanks for the update.

OK, my 'mainstream lens" request is more on the pro side, but .... the casual shooter doesn't pay $1700 for a body and if all you want are landscapes, one would lean toward the 5D, so I still think the lens group I suggested will be a desired group with the 7D for safari and birders. Regardless, your points make sense and again, thanks for the report.
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Re: 7D vs D300 (with updates)

Postby James Jerome on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:51 pm

E.J., thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've had a positive experience with the 7d. While not the "perfect" camera (is there such a thing?), I find it to be a competent tool that does not get in the way of my shooting and vision.

Having shot extensively with the 7d and a supertelephoto (800mm), here are some of my findings:

  • The small pixel pitch makes the margin of error very small in focusing. Careful attention and proper technique is necessary, even with solid AF and IS.
  • The small pixel pitch also makes the 7d slightly harsh on teleconverters. Certainly not unusable, but noticeable.
  • Noise pops up at low ISOs, but it is not particularly objectionable, being small-grained and primarily luminance. DPP reduces the noise, but gives my images a slightly plasticky look that I don't care for. I prefer Capture One so far for RAW conversions of my images.
  • The 7d seems to handle dark green color transitions slightly smoother than my MkII series cameras. I'm not sure if this is a benefit of 14-bit images, or a dithering effect from the fine, small-grained noise.
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Re: 7D vs D300 (with updates)

Postby WJaekel on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:56 pm

Thank you very much, E.J. for this very helpful, unbiased and detailled review. Looking forward to further insights.


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Postby Glenn Bartley on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:29 am

One thing I would be really interested to see was the difference in IQ with and without a 1.4x TC. This was something I noticed in the 50D and I assume would be even moreso on this camera. If anyone feels like posting some samlpes...that would be sweet...

Or maybe I just have to get my hands on one of these things myself and see for myself :)

Great report EJ. Thanks!
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Postby OntPhoto on Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:02 pm

Interesting write-up. Good to see how the 2 cameras compare. Coming from a 40D, my main reason for getting the 7D is the better AF and AF tracking and most feedback I've read seem to indicate as you have....that the AF/Ai-Servo on the new 7D is very good and improved over previous models.
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