Heads up to all Gitzo tripod users

[DavidRamey]

What is there to resolve when you can't get people to check the tightness of one nut on a removable part? It is so easy to avoid this problem and takes 3 seconds out of a person's life. Tighten one nut once and there is no problem.

[Paul Fusco]

if I have to walk more than a 1/4 mile, I find it much easier to remove the camera/lense, carry it by it's lense foot like a lunch box and carry the tripod w/ head in the other hand. To me, I will get to my destination faster, more comfortable and easier that way. It has always been common sense to me that slinging 17lbs of gear over my shoulder that's worth in excess of $16K in my case, is risky at best, with little or no benefit.

I regularly walk way more than 1/4 mile with my rig. Most of the places around here require walking from subject to subject to find things. Over the shoulder is the only way to do it if you want to be somewhat ready to shoot anything. The only times I ever carry the lens/body in a pack off the tripod would be when I am going to a specific place and I would not want to shoot along the way. Everyone that I know and have shot with does the same thing. OTS is the best way to go. If the tripod needs to have the collar/plate assembly beefed up to make it stronger, I would want Gitzo to do it. I'll suck it up and carry that extra weight of a couple of set screws and a thicker, stronger collar if it meant that the tripod was more secure with heavy head/lens/body combos.

I also don't see why Gitzo doesn't meet the need with products that would be designed better for the big lens crowd (and we are becoming a crowd).

- Paul

[GeneO]

if I have to walk more than a 1/4 mile, I find it much easier to remove the camera/lense, carry it by it's lense foot like a lunch box and carry the tripod w/ head in the other hand. To me, I will get to my destination faster, more comfortable and easier that way. It has always been common sense to me that slinging 17lbs of gear over my shoulder that's worth in excess of $16K in my case, is risky at best, with little or no benefit.

+=1 on that!

[c.w. moynihan]

well I guess it all depends on your shooting situation.... If I'm doing shore shooting, I agree, but if I'm in the woods, typically I won't carry over the shoulder for a variety of reasons...ie: tree branches, bushwacking, ect. when going from one locale to the other. Bottom line, if you expect to be carrying it that way, make sure your NUT is tightened.

[scott clark]

RafalA (posted 3-19-9) is absolutely correct: the plate is not securely fastened to the tripod. There is a simple solution to this fundamental design flaw.

After my Nikon: 600mm lens, TC, D3, SB800, and Wimberley head went crashing to the ground, I was devastated and never want this to happen again!(as noted in my 3-17-09 post). I immediately consulted with my neighbor, an aerospace design engineer. He is the owner of his company, and his products are used by NASA.

After looking at my Gitzo 1548, he said the top of the tripod "collar"/10mm hex nut, and plate design, are woefully inadequate to hold heavy, expensive camera equipment. Simply stated, it's too much weight cantilevered over ones shoulder and will eventually fail. He designed an incredibly brilliant system from his C & C machine (computer controlled cutting machine) that would make it virtually impossible for the mounting plate ever to separate from the tripod. I showed this design to my friend, Joe Fuhrman, who was very excited. We asked my engineer friend to design a special plate for Joe's Gitzo 3530, which he did. Joe has given a prototype to his cousin Brian Small for field testing. Tim Zurowski, when you visit Joe in 3 weeks, you will be able to see the new system as well.

I think the merits of a 100% secure locking mechanism has been adequately discussed in this thread. According to my engineer friend, locking screws, depending on their size, is a better resolution, but still not adequate. After we've field tested the new system, we will then make it available to everyone.

Scott Clark
L.A., CA U.S.A.

[DarrenMcKenna]

It is becoming obvious to me that you guys are just defending your purchases

Actually I did research on tripods before I bought my Gitzo. It's what landed me here at NSN The masses here recommended a Gitzo
I've never been called a FANBOY till today

[George DeCamp]

After looking at my Gitzo 1548, he said the top of the tripod "collar"/10mm hex nut, and plate design, are woefully inadequate to hold heavy, expensive camera equipment. Simply stated, it's too much weight cantilevered over ones shoulder and will eventually fail. He designed an incredibly brilliant system from his C & C machine (computer controlled cutting machine) that would make it virtually impossible for the mounting plate ever to separate from the tripod. I showed this design to my friend, Joe Fuhrman, who was very excited. We asked my engineer friend to design a special plate for Joe's Gitzo 3530, which he did. Joe has given a prototype to his cousin Brian Small for field testing. Tim Zurowski, when you visit Joe in 3 weeks, you will be able to see the new system as well.

I think the merits of a 100% secure locking mechanism has been adequately discussed in this thread. According to my engineer friend, locking screws, depending on their size, is a better resolution, but still not adequate. After we've field tested the new system, we will then make it available to everyone.

Scott Clark
L.A., CA U.S.A.

Scott, please keep us posted!!!

[gitzodave]

FYI to everyone commenting...

I have printed this entire forum discussion thread and sent it via .PDF directly to head of R&D at Gitzo. While I stand by the earlier statements I, and others, have made here and throughout the Photography Discussion forum on how to properly use and maintain Gitzo tripods, I believe this issue warrants attention by those whose job it is to design a better mousetrap. Although thousands upon thousands of photographers have used this system for over 70 years without fail, perhaps a better design could reduce further the routine maintenance/inspection one should provide to her/his equipment. Heck, it only took 68 years to replace the fiber bushings with polymer & make the legs non-rotating!

I'll reiterate here again (I posted this several weeks ago on another thread), I had a recent encounter with Arthur Morris at the NANPA Summit in which he described and presented to me the best way to carry heavy equipment ON YOUR TRIPOD that will give you the fastest access (quicker than over-the-shoulder) while reducing the pain he developed by carrying 600mm lenses on his shoulder for too many years, while increasing the safety of the rig. I recommend following his advice for carrying, regardless of tripod brand you prefer to use.

1. Instead of collapsing the legs inward so the feet are together , pull one leg of the tripod through the other two legs.
2. Lift and hold the tripod with the weight against your body with the camera body resting in the crook of your shoulder between the shoulder and pectoral with the long lens facing outward in the direction you are walking.

This position will alleviate stress on your shoulder as well as the yoke of the tripod, and provide the quickest access to your rig since it is in front of you facing outward, rather than slung over your shoulder. In a pinch, you could even use the inverted leg setup as a quick base (another tip from Artie).

Good Luck Shooting Everyone.

Regards,
David Fisher
Product Manager, Gitzo Brand
Bogen Imaging USA

[Anthony Medici]

2. Lift and hold the tripod with the weight against your body with the camera body resting in the crook of your shoulder between the shoulder and pectoral with the long lens facing outward in the direction you are walking.

That's a fine position to get lots of water onto your lens if it is raining.

BTW, I have no issues with the current design of the tripods.

[Alan Melle]

This really shouldn't be that hard to fix. Add a couple of bayonet lugs on opposite sides of the plate and mill a couple of corresponding groves in the base for the lugs to feed into and then twist. You could still use the same bolt assembly to lock the plate in place as is done presently but the lugs/grooves would totally prevent the plate from falling out even if quite loose. Any user would notice such the looseness well before any disaster could occur. I do have to add that I have carried my big lens over my shoulder on my Gitzo for several years and have never had a problem, knock on wood. Just check the tightness of the nut occasionally.

[photoman4343]

Scott please keep us posted. Even if the current system is OK, improvemements are always welcomed. That is what product evolution is all about. Dave, perhaps Gitzo and Scott and his engineer friend can work together to improve the product. How about a collaboration ? Who knows, the concept and technique might have applications to Gitzo in other areas. Joe Smith

[Tim Zurowski]

FYI to everyone commenting...

I have printed this entire forum discussion thread and sent it via .PDF directly to head of R&D at Gitzo.

1. Instead of collapsing the legs inward so the feet are together , pull one leg of the tripod through the other two legs.
2. Lift and hold the tripod with the weight against your body with the camera body resting in the crook of your shoulder between the shoulder and pectoral with the long lens facing outward in the direction you are walking.

This position will alleviate stress on your shoulder as well as the yoke of the tripod, and provide the quickest access to your rig since it is in front of you facing outward, rather than slung over your shoulder.

Thank you very much Dave for listening and being willing to put this forward for review. It is greatly appreciated.

Regarding Artie's method for carrying the tripod. I have used that method many times; however, it is only good for short distances, and ONLY on even terrain. Try walking up a steep hill or over uneven terrain like that with the legs extended. Like I mentioned I have been carrying my gear in the wilderness for 29 years, and the only way I have found it to really work well for me (other than having the stuff in a backpack) is to have the tripod over the shoulder with the lens facing down. I have foam on each leg for comfort. Naturally I would not do this over dangerous or slippery terrain, but for general locations it is what works for me and what I do. I am not trying to convince anyone else that they should carry their gear this way, but for me, I need a tripod that I can feel comfortable doing so. I am too old to change my ways now

Scott, I will definitely be looking forward to seeing Joe's modified version when I see him in a few weeks

[George DeCamp]

1. Instead of collapsing the legs inward so the feet are together .........

Dave,

It is very rare I ever see anyone doing it like that. Most people place their shoulder in the center and lift up or some method like that. However like Tim said there are times when the legs hit he ground or rocks so leaning the rig back on your shoulder is the way we do it then.

Thanks VERY much for letting the mother ship know about this thread. I know if they look they will get a solution that works for us all. I have had no issues but certainly would like to remove all doubts I have about the system being safe for my expensive gear.

Cheers!!

George

[Paul Fusco]

Thank you, Dave!!!

- Paul

[OntPhoto]

After looking at my Gitzo 1548, he said the top of the tripod "collar"/10mm hex nut, and plate design, are woefully inadequate to hold heavy, expensive camera equipment. Simply stated, it's too much weight cantilevered over ones shoulder and will eventually fail. He designed an incredibly brilliant system from his C & C machine (computer controlled cutting machine) that would make it virtually impossible for the mounting plate ever to separate from the tripod. Scott Clark
L.A., CA U.S.A.

This post had me thinking a bit. Took a look at my 3530LSV and noticed a grooved space on the inside part where the bolt in question is located and a similar space on the side directly opposite it. I was wondering what would happen if the lower or bottom part of the top plate had a minimal extension protruding from it on opposite sides. There isn't much room as you are dropping the top plate down into the base of the tripod collar. There is room however, where the 2 spaces are located so you can slide the top plate extension down the opening.

Once the top plate is resting on the tripod collar, you can twist the top plate so the extension at the bottom of the top plate is now "catching" onto that aluminum looking piece (appears glued or somehow bonded to the tripod collar) from the bottom. If you were to try and pull the top plate away from the tripod collar, you wouldn't be able to unless you first rotate the top plate so the "extensions" lined up with the 2 open spaces and then lift. The top plate side wall in its current design would have to be a slight bit longer as that aluminum piece appears to extend down further than the bottom of the top plate itself. Maybe this new "extension", now that it's catching onto the bottom of aluminum looking piece will prevent the top plate from suddenly falling out or away from the tripod collar.

This won't prevent the screw or bolt in question from loosening over time but at least there's something, however slight, holding the top plate onto the tripod collar and give some warning to the user that the bolt may have come loose. The problem I see in this idea is I'm not sure how much force that aluminum looking piece can sustain and I don't know by what means it is attached to the inside of the tripod collar. I'm no engineer but it's fun to play and thanks for indulging me

As for top plates seperating from the tripod/tripod collar I ran into a photographer who had that happen recently to his gear. Fortunately for him, he had already or was in the process of taking his 500mm Nikon lens off his Gitzo tripod. He expressed great surprise/shock that it happened but I mentioned the problem was currently being discussed on a photography forum. And to check the tightness of that bolt on a more regular basis. He said that's what he's going to do from now on. And just yesterday, I felt the need to mention the possible issue to another Nikon shooter. He owns a 600mm lens and a Gitzo tripod. Must be an older model because it looks a lot chunkier than the current 6x. Anyway, he noticed that the top plate was slowly working itself away from the tripod collar. I can't say for certain but we could see part of the top plate metal between the top plate and the base of the tripod collar. Said first thing he'll do when getting home is to loosen that bolt and then retighten it.

Proper maintenance will help to prevent that bolt from coming loose and with the current heightened awareness, maybe users will now check the bolt on a more regular basis. However, it wouldn't hurt to have some sort of failsafe or secondary mechanism in place in case people forget to tighten the bolt. You know, sort of like have in place a first and second line of defence.

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[Bart Heirweg]

After reading this topic I checked my one month old Gito GT3541LS and I am very happy I did! The bold was lose indeed and the base plate had already lifted up a few millimeters. I guess it was only a matter of time before the base plate would have fallen out. I loosened the bold, put the base plate back in its position and thighted the bold as hard as I could.
After seeing this, I will check the setup each time I go out.

I switched to Gitzo, because I wanted a good and durable tripod, but this is definitely something Gitzo needs to address. I hope they offer a solution for all tripod owners and not only for tripods that are yet to be sold.

[jat]

I have a GT3530LS. If I fold and unfold the legs 6 times, the screw that holds the plate tight loosens a little. This is with just a ballhead on the tripod -- no camera or lens.
Does anyone know if using Loctite 222 (purple) on that screw will alleviate the problem -- or is using loctite a bad idea? I don't like having to remember to check that screw multiple times a day.
Should I send the tripod back for warranty repair/replacement?

Jim Thomas

[OntPhoto]

I have a GT3530LS. If I fold and unfold the legs 6 times, the screw that holds the plate tight loosens a little. This is with just a ballhead on the tripod -- no camera or lens.
Does anyone know if using Loctite 222 (purple) on that screw will alleviate the problem -- or is using loctite a bad idea? I don't like having to remember to check that screw multiple times a day.
Should I send the tripod back for warranty repair/replacement?

Jim Thomas

If all it takes to loosen the bolt is to fold and unfold the tripod legs 6 times then I imagine you need to really tighten the bolt next time or replace either the bolt or nut or both (assuming no one is pulling my leg that is ). The "having to check the screw multiple times a day" may be an exxageration. I think what I've read here is to just, you know, check it on a regular basis.

[signgrap]

I have a GT3530LS. If I fold and unfold the legs 6 times, the screw that holds the plate tight loosens a little. This is with just a ballhead on the tripod -- no camera or lens.
Does anyone know if using Loctite 222 (purple) on that screw will alleviate the problem -- or is using loctite a bad idea? I don't like having to remember to check that screw multiple times a day.
Should I send the tripod back for warranty repair/replacement?

Jim Thomas

If all it takes to loosen the bolt is to fold and unfold the tripod legs 6 times then I imagine you need to really tighten the bolt next time or replace either the bolt or nut or both (assuming no one is pulling my leg that is ). The "having to check the screw multiple times a day" may be an exxageration. I think what I've read here is to just, you know, check it on a regular basis.

All you need to do is apply Teflon Tape to the screw threads before you screw the nut onto it. A few wraps of Teflon tape, usually 3 time around or more if the nut does not fit tight, will keep the nut from ever loosening on its own again. The tape is not permanent in that you can unloosen the nut if you ever need to take it apart. Teflon tape is used by plumbers and is available at any hardware/plumbing supply store.

[Neil Fitzgerald]

Are you willing to name it? What exactly is the wording they use? I'm honestly curious, who would state that the tripod they manufactur is designed to carry 10's of thousands of $ worth of equipment weiging >7kg. It just sounds like a very risky claim.

Neil, now you are just being downright ridiculous. What company would ever state anything like that. I never said they reported their tripods to be designed to do that. All I said was mine is secure and I have full confidence that the plate will never fall off, that I will never have to check those three screws, and they will never come loose. Would you like me to report back to you once a month to confirm this for you? How many times do I have to say the same thing? It does not happen with my Feisol, and it does happen with many Gitzos. It is that simple.

In fact, this whole discussion is just getting ridiculous. It is becoming obvious to me that you guys are just defending your purchases, that you love your Gitzos, and that is fine. We have proof that many Gitzo plates have fallen off. We also know that many professional photographers carry their tripods and lenses over their shoulders. I see pros at the Olympics and sporting events walking around with their long lenses over their shoulders. I have already stated that IMO, it is VERY unlikely that the top plate could ever come off on my Feisol tripod. So to me it is a no brainer that Gitzo needs to look into this issue and do something to correct it. How can that be such a negative for all of you, when it helps everyone, and saves the chance of (even once) someone damaging their gear. It also appears obvious to me from those that talk about it having happened to them, that it would not take having the tripod over your shoulder to loose the plate and have your lens crash to the ground. So the over the shoulder issue is a moot point anyway. The fact is, it does and can happen. To me that should be enough for any reputable company to look into the issue and try to resolve it.

This is the last I am going to talk about this, as it appears to be so simple and obvious to me, that it is total waste of time debating it anymore.

I don't think I was being ridiculous, and I think your remarks to that effect are totally unnecessary. I wasn’t going to reply, because it’s hardly worth the time trying to explain to people who seem set in their ways, but here is my last comment on the subject.
I am pretty sure no tripod manufacturer would recommend carrying a load of heavy expensive gear cantilevered over the shoulder. You seem to agree.
Just because we have a rep from one of the manufacturers willing to speak up here does not mean the other silent parties feel any differently (I think it says something positive about their honesty).
Sure loads of people carry their gear like that, me included, sometimes it is just the best way, but everyone doing it should know that they are taking a risk (the number of potential failure points is scary), and they would be wise to take a few precautions to minimise that risk. Checking the bolt has been talked about on NSN at least a few times in the last 6 months. It is just so easy to do, and seems so obvious (to some of us). It is not hard to take a second to give everything a bit of a wiggle before doing something no tripod manufacturer would recommend!

Sorry for the typos in my earlier message. My right arm was giving blood at the time.

Neil.