I hope this isn't in the wrong forum, but it revolves around the aspect of pixel density of the new cameras coming to the market.

I've always preferred to handhold whenever possible. I mostly shoot birds in habitat and as a stalker have always relished the freedom of movement not being tied down to a tripod or monopod. I've gotten used to shooting my D300+500VR with TC14EII and even the TC17EII hand held. In fact probably 90%+ of all the shots on my site were taken hand held. This is not to suggest they compete with the quality of the images posted here on Naturescapes, but I've been sufficiently happy with the results.

One thing I've noticed is that, everything else being more or less equal, the IQ of my D3 images always looked sharper than my D300 images. I've come to believe the larger photosites of the D3 are simply more tolerant of less-than-perfect long-lens technique (in this case hand holding).

So I had this idea of moving to FF more or less exclusively, and compensating for the loss of reach with longer glass than my 500mm. That was one reason I was seriously considering the new Canon Mk2's due to the lower weight; e.g. the new 600mm weighs the same as my 500mm which I figure I could continue to hand hold.

But I'm beginning to question the whole wisdom of hand holding considering all the new cameras are using increasingly dense sensors with smaller photosites. The new D800 is a clear example where long lens technique is going to be critical to get sharp images. I can't imagine hand holding that camera and getting good results at the pixel level unless the shutter speed is very high...which as we all know is often not possible in the field.

So it appears to me that in order to get the most out of the new crop of cameras that will be hitting the market soon I'm going to have to rely on a tripod a lot more in the future. No doubt this is old news for many of you more experience folks, but I have to admit I'm not real happy about the prospect of being burdened with a tripod.

The d800 has around the same density as the D7000, so if you can do it with that camera it shouldn't be much different with the d800.
You might find your keepers go up with the d300 if you turn off the VR above 1/500 sec or so, at least I did with my D300 (and D7000).

Is that with the 500 f4 Scott? And if so....why would it go up above 1/500th?

It is a well established fact that Nikon VR only helps image quality up to right around 1/800 second - that seems to be the break even point. With faster shutter speeds than that, you actually lose a very slight bit of image quality. But that is for lenses mounted on a tripod. With a 500mm lens hand held, I personally would leave it on to at least 1/1000 sec just to eliminate lens motion blur. Every lens that has IS/VR is sharper with the stabilization turned off in a perfect world where there is no camera movement whatsoever and no vibrations induced by the mechanics of the camera and lens. So it stands to reason that at some point, as shutter speeds get faster, stabilization is actually a detriment - but you have to be a pretty hard core pixel peeper to really see that in most situations.

Ok EJ........I’ll just have to take your word for this one. I have to admit that I’ll have to come back tomorrow and think it through to really grasp this one. It is quite new to me and complex to understand right now. Gary’s posting ought to bring some very interesting responses tomorrow.

I always keep the IS on when using my 500. uhoh

Here's the deal on IS/VR. It is basically a servo system using motion sensors. In the older versions, if IS/maybe VR was on and there was no movement as on a rigid tripod, with no correction signals from the sensors, the servo would hunt looking for it so the image would move. On Canon the latest lenses (IS version 2) can detect no camera movement and mute the IS system on its own. Now that's a nice feature IMHO because if a really bad gust of wind comes up the camera might move enough on the tripod where IS becomes necessary and it should become active. I would hope it initializes from the present position of the moving element in that case unlike the whipping movement when it gets activated by using the focus button.

I hand hold Canon 500mm all the time, I have used it with the Canon 7D which has the smallest pixel size of any camera in the market (including D800). IS is always ON and mode 2. My files are as sharp as it possibly gets when pixel peeping. Never had an issue with IS. I had Nikon D3S and 500VR for a while too, again had zero problem making razor sharp files at any shutter speed with VR active.

It seems to be much more noticeable with the crop sensor cameras for some reason. Pixel density being less forgiving, I don't know.

Hi Scott;

I only have experience with my 12MP D3000 and 12MP D3. I would assume getting crisp shots with the D7000, 7D etc. would even be more challenging. You have to remember that, as a birder, I'm typically cropping up to 80%, which means I'm definitely down at the pixel level.

And thanks, I'm well aware of the VR limitation. Actually I tend to leave VR on most of the time, but when SS get over 500 I switch from Normal to Active (tripod) mode even when handholding. That seems to restrict the compensator to two degrees of motion instead of four degrees and reduces the "bad" effects of VR at higher SS's (except for bokeh, which does tend to get a little funky with VR on.)

The answer may be that you should be getting closer to the birds. I'm not birder myself, but many of the shots you see on here are uncropped or slightly cropped, and field craft and patience to get close is a big deal.

I think people confuse higher resolution with the ability for extreme cropping. I agree that it gives some flexibility but certainly not equal to the better quality of lower res sensors on a pixel to pixel basis. There's a natural tendency, I think, when you have all those pixels available to crop much tighter but you are naturally going to multiply shortcomings.
As the above post mentioned, I think it's much better to move closer and stay within acceptable image bounds.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned to you yet is AF fine-tune. This is a function of the camera and must be set for each lens or lens-TC combination. It must be set for each camera body separately. Due to fine tolerance differences in manufacturing, this adjustment is critical in obtaining exact auto focus and could be the reason you are getting sharp images with one camera and not the other, all other things being equal. This is briefly mentioned in the instruction manuals, but is more thoroughly explained in some of the forums. It wouldn't hurt to try adjusting this on the camera and checking out your results, as this feature is designed for just such a situation. Obviously, if your problem is with camera movement, this won't help. Hope this helps!

Bill, you make some good points, but like it or not higher resolution is a confirmed advantage when cropping. Of course "getting close" is the #1 rule for obtaining quality images, but unfortunately that's not always possible.

I appreciate all the comments, but so far nobody has countered my thesis.

Thanks. I have fine-tuned my equipment using Lensalign. This is not a factor.

Hi Gary, I think it's pretty much expected that you will get better results with a tripod, especially with high density sensors. You do give up mobility, and that's not a small thing. In Ye Olden days of film and shooting 50 or 100ISO, handholding was a very rare thing.

EJ, please explain this statement....."With a 500mm lens hand held, I personally would leave it on to at least 1/1000 sec just to eliminate lens motion blur”.

I have a question that may have already been answered indirectly: Do the Canon IS II system and the Nikon VR (generation II.....the improved one) system operate essentially in the same ways? And if there are significant differences....what are they?

I am not sure about this, I hand hold my rig all the time, I don't even have a tripod I think my files are as sharp as it possibly gets. It all depends on your strength and hand holding technique .

It depends on your shutter speed..