500mm II to 400mm DO II?

Hello, I'm a birdphotographer. I'm thinking of trading my 500mm II for the 400mm DO II. I will be using it with both extenders. It will be hard to depart from the 500, but I find it often too heavy to lug around and while it's handholdable for short periods of time, I'm feeling that I can't handle it fast enough for bif's. The reduced weight and size of the 400 DO will make it much easier, also for travel. Are there others who made the same switch? Any regrets? I'm using a 7D2 and also have a 100-400mm II for more general purposes. I prefer not to use tripods or monopods. It's not an option to have both the 500 II and the 400 DO II. Thanks!

Reports about how the DO II really performs with the TC x2, regarding AF and IQ (especially on a dense sensor), are scarce.
The digital picture samples are so-so. For example, the 400 x2 is not up to the 500 x1.4 if you often shoot in the 700-800mm range.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Revi ... &APIComp=2

On the other hand the 500 II is an exceptional lens, and if you have the excellent 100-400 II also, not sure if the switch is worth it.
You probably need to try the 400 DOII with TCs before selling your 500.
Please report what you find, I am very interested in this lens also.

You can read my test for the 400 mm f:4DO here: http://blog.alamany.com/2015/01/canon-e ... eview.html
I think it can be of interest to you. It's a beautiful piece of lens, and works excellent with teleconverters. I you don't like tripods I think it's a best handholding than the 500.

What Vertigo said. 

For me it helps to divide the birds in flight category         completely away       from the birds NOT in flight. 

IN FLIGHT:  I find the AF function and my ability to find my flying subject best served with Canon's little 400mm f 5.6.  My 500mm was too slow to AF on super fast fliers, too heavy to swing around hand held after a while, and had a tad too limited a field of view.  I am currently using the Canon 7D II and the Canon Mark IV cameras.  Yes, my new 100-400II is pretty good, but not quite as fast on the draw as the 400mm f 5.6 for flight.  I think the old 400mm f 5.6 would outperform the new 400 DO II on flight.  Plus it is infinitely cheaper. 


NOT IN FLIGHT:  My buddy Ed Lusby has the new 400 DO II and loves it but he was complaining a bit about BIF performance when we were shooting together on BIF.  I think of the new 400 DO II as the long lens rig for stills when combined with TCs, not really a BIF allstar.  So, I'd say the new 400 DO II is your pick for travel and stills, and light weight in particular because one can handle it with no tripod.   Not having to deal with the tripod and head on travels is a biggie.  However, I prefer long reach on stills, and that would be with a 500, 600, or 800.

In conclusion, I'd say stick with your 500 mm plus TCs and add a little 400mm f 5.6 for flight.  The IQ of the new DO is likely not quite as good as the IQ on your new 500mm f 4 II, even though the 400 DO II is lighter/ smaller.

 

imagenes_vivas wrote:You can read my test for the 400 mm f:4DO here: http://blog.alamany.com/2015/01/canon-e ... eview.html
I think it can be of interest to you. It's a beautiful piece of lens, and works excellent with teleconverters. I you don't like tripods I think it's a best handholding than the 500.

Hi Oriol. Thank you, I too am very interested in this comparison. 

I read your review when you first posted it a while ago and pre-ordered the lens.

My question to you is, how does it compare with a 1.4X on it vs the naked 500mm? I am assuming you tested it against the 500 MkI and not MkII, but I don't think there is a huge difference in sharpness between the two models. However, it would be interesting to see how it performs when pushed to 540mm with the extender against the bare 500mm. Your comparison with the 2X on both lenses, IMHO suggests the DO has an edge in sharpness although the reach of the 500 is greater obviously.

Pradeep

A large difference in sharpness with TC, between 500 mkI and mkII has been reported :
http://www.juzaphoto.com/article.php?l= ... 4ii_review

Looks like the new Sigma 150-600 zoom EJ just tested and decided to keep might be a good option instead of either of these lenses?

http://www.naturescapes.net/forums/view ... 7&t=256043

Vertigo wrote:A large difference in sharpness with TC, between 500 mkI and mkII has been reported :
http://www.juzaphoto.com/article.php?l= ... 4ii_review

I was thinking more about the comparison between the 400 DO with a 1.4X TC vs the bare 500 f4, either MkI or MkII. Even if it comes up to the level of only the MkI sharpness, that in itself would be a huge thing for me. BTW, is there a truly objective comparison between the MkI and MkII in terms of pure sharpness?

Looks like the new 400 DO II is a competent BIF shooter as just posted here: http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2015/07/ ... -than-one/

But, jeez, the price is just brutal. I say get a 7D II and a 400mm f 5.6 and rock it for cheap. If you can hack the 400 DO II price tag, hey, go for it. Gotta get in line, they are very hard to get.

Thanks all for the advices. I will try to test one before I make a decision, but it won't be easy to find one.

Primus My question to you is, how does it compare with a 1.4X on it vs the naked 500mm? I am assuming you tested it against the 500 MkI and not MkII, but I don't think there is a huge difference in sharpness between the two models. However, it would be interesting to see how it performs when pushed to 540mm with the extender against the bare 500mm. Your comparison with the 2X on both lenses, IMHO suggests the DO has an edge in sharpness although the reach of the 500 is greater obviously. wrote: Pradeep

I do not have the 400mm DO II anymore to do new tests. It was a loan from Canon Spain for a few days. 

400mm +1.4x=560mm. Difficult to compare the images because with 560mm the subject is bigger in the photograph than with 500mm. So maybe you loose a little bit of quality due to the use of an extender, but you win because the animal is bigger. I think it would be very similar. At least with my old 500mm series I vs. 400mm DO II+1.4x

imagenes_vivas wrote:

Primus My question to you is, how does it compare with a 1.4X on it vs the naked 500mm? I am assuming you tested it against the 500 MkI and not MkII, but I don't think there is a huge difference in sharpness between the two models. However, it would be interesting to see how it performs when pushed to 540mm with the extender against the bare 500mm. Your comparison with the 2X on both lenses, IMHO suggests the DO has an edge in sharpness although the reach of the 500 is greater obviously. wrote: Pradeep

I do not have the 400mm DO II anymore to do new tests. It was a loan from Canon Spain for a few days. 

400mm +1.4x=560mm. Difficult to compare the images because with 560mm the subject is bigger in the photograph than with 500mm. So maybe you loose a little bit of quality due to the use of an extender, but you win because the animal is bigger. I think it would be very similar. At least with my old 500mm series I vs. 400mm DO II+1.4x

Oriol, thanks. Yes, I meant 560mm. You could still compare images, you already did that with the 2X on both lenses. From what I am reading, it would be very close.

Pradeep

WimDel wrote:Hello, I'm a birdphotographer. I'm thinking of trading my 500mm II for the 400mm DO II. I will be using it with both extenders. It will be hard to depart from the 500, but I find it often too heavy to lug around and while it's handholdable for short periods of time, I'm feeling that I can't handle it fast enough for bif's. The reduced weight and size of the 400 DO will make it much easier, also for travel. Are there others who made the same switch? Any regrets? I'm using a 7D2 and also have a 100-400mm II for more general purposes. I prefer not to use tripods or monopods. It's not an option to have both the 500 II and the 400 DO II. Thanks!

I would think it is a no-brainer to get the 400 DO II if you don't want to use tripods. I refused to buy the 500 because of the weight of the lens/tripod/gimbal head. I think you miss a lot of shots that you would get with a hand holdable lens. Of course, with the static subjects the 500 has more reach and will be better in some situations. It's a trade off I'm glad I made. The quality of the 400 DO is equal to the 500 II, according to reviews I"ve read by people who have both. The 1.4X TC works extremely well with the DO; little loss in quality or focusing speed. The 2X TC gives very good optical results as well, but focusing can be slower. You often need to manually turn the focus ring to get close to focus before the AF kicks in. My standard rig for small bird photography is now the 400 DO II plus 1.4X TC. The DO II works well for bif when coupled with the 7D MKII, but I typically use the new 100-400 for that as it is a bit lighter and also gives very sharp images.

WimDel wrote:Hello, I'm a birdphotographer. I'm thinking of trading my 500mm II for the 400mm DO II. I will be using it with both extenders. It will be hard to depart from the 500, but I find it often too heavy to lug around and while it's handholdable for short periods of time, I'm feeling that I can't handle it fast enough for bif's. The reduced weight and size of the 400 DO will make it much easier, also for travel. Are there others who made the same switch? Any regrets? I'm using a 7D2 and also have a 100-400mm II for more general purposes. I prefer not to use tripods or monopods. It's not an option to have both the 500 II and the 400 DO II. Thanks!

I have been following this thread since it was first posted. WimDel, I agree with you 100% and if the 400 DO II ever becomes available I will very strongly consider getting one to use in place of my 500 f4 II lens. I had one of the original 400 DO lenses several years ago and loved it's weight and size. I recall being able to handhold and carry it and use it without a tripod with no problem.

Does anyone have an idea when this lens will become available? I have found one or two of them after Google searches, but the selling price is about $500 over list price and the sellers have not been firms with which I am familiar.

Bruce Sherman wrote:
Does anyone have an idea when this lens will become available? I have found one or two of them after Google searches, but the selling price is about $500 over list price and the sellers have not been firms with which I am familiar.

If I had waited until it was in stock, and I still would not have one, and wouldn't have had it for a safari in March. However, I ordered it at 6AM on the announcement day, and I received one of the 2 lenses that BH got from Canon's first shipment back in November, I think it was. So just order it and you will get it. Right now BH and others can only fill their backorders for the lens.

The Canon EF 400mm f4 DO II is in stock at WEX Photographic - not quite B&H, but they are the largest photographic retailer in the UK.  http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-canon-ef-400mm-f4-do-is-ii-usm-lens/p1560269 
The price shown includes 20% UK sales tax, which would be deducted if purchased from the US. 

Phil Shaw wrote:The Canon EF 400mm f4 DO II is in stock at WEX Photographic - not quite B&H, but they are the largest photographic retailer in the UK.  http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-canon-ef-400mm-f4-do-is-ii-usm-lens/p1560269 
The price shown includes 20% UK sales tax, which would be deducted if purchased from the US. 

If you can wait, B&H has it listed for $6899. Importing from UK even without VAT is going to cost at least $8800, a difference of almost $2000

When it does become freely available in the US, it may be cheaper for somebody to fly in from UK, buy it here and go back!

Pradeep

So in the end I decided to get the 400mm DO II, and I want to share my limited experience with this gem so far. It is a fantastic lens, small and light (at least compared to other superteles such as my 500 II, that is now sold) and very sharp. I put my 7D2 on it and did some quick tests against the 500 II and to my eyes it is practically as sharp as the 500 II, even with all extender combinations they are on par. I did find the color a little bit ‘cooler’ on the DO, maybe because the lack of fluorite? This is easily corrected in pp though. As for AF speed, it is very fast. Even with the 1.4x extender it easily tracks fast flying bif, better than my former 300 II +2x could do. With the 2x it behaves as the 500 with the 2x, not really suitable for fast flying bif but fast and accurate anough for slower flyers. I will be using this lens mostly with the 1.4x but would not hesitate to use the 2x aswell for more reach. All in all I have no regrets of the switch!




100% crops:



560mm:
800mm (large crop):

Looks super sharp to me, though the camera seems to be awfully noisy in your sample at 1600.

Congratulations for your new lens.
Please keep the samples coming, it's interesting to look at real world pictures.
How is the bokeh looking is an unanswered question in the long term.