Best crop camera to match EF 400 f5.6

Hi all, Off on safari again. As time goes by I'm finding carry-on-bag restrictions are limiting my my choice of equipment. The big whites are pretty much ruled out for the way I travel. I need to match my EF 400 F5.6 with a crop camera while my 5Diii sports a 100-400 and my 5Dc a 24-105. I am only interested in centre point AF accuracy. Anything else is not required. I had a 7D but my son has taken it to Borneo where he lives and works. IQ is important but I see little improvement in Canon's crop sensors since the T2i. I might consider another brand of camera that with an adapter can MF with my 400 F5.6 if it is relatively easy to focus as nothing in the bush stands still for long. The new 7Dii looks over speced for my needs unless reputable tests show it to have a major improvement in IQ which appears doubtful at the moment. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

If you don't want a 7D2 then probably a 70D is your best bet.

Hi Perky. How about a Canon 1D mark 4 , 520mm with the 400-5.6 or over 700mm with the 1.4 converter and center point af.

E.J. Peiker wrote:If you don't want a 7D2 then probably a 70D is your best bet.

Thanks EJ. I did look at the 70D and felt I was paying mostly for video features and not getting any major up lift in IQ or centre point AF accuracy over earlier models. Is the centre point on the Rebels as accurate as the XXD series?

Craig Browne wrote:Hi Perky.   How about a Canon 1D mark 4 , 520mm with the 400-5.6 or over 700mm with the 1.4 converter and center point af.

Thanks Craig, An interesting suggestion and one that I had not thought of. I will search the second hand market in the UK and see what's available at what price.

The mark4 weighs a ton, not to mention the shoe box sized charger. If you want to keep the weight and size down, what about an SL1? It's a rebel class , but it is very small. It has basically the same sensor as 7D, etc.
I guess it really depends on just how much performance you want in terms of fps, AF tracking and so on.

Right now used 7D's are going for a song, I would get one if I needed one and could not wait for mk2. As most of Canons recent crop bodies have EXACTLY the same IQ, I include the 70D despite the new sensor, I would consider the speed and AF a bonus.

The great thing about the 1DM4 body is that it will focus even in low light when the 7D won't any longer, based on my personal experience. I used a monopod to compensate for the lack of IS.

Thanks for the suggestions. A couple of professional wildlife photographer friends have advised not to bother with a crop camera for reach but to put a 1.4x converter on the 400 and use the 5Diii as the files are so much better when the light is poor at dawn and dusk. I need to run some tests between the two but a quick test of the 5Diii+400+1.4x shows it focuses fast and produces a very satisfactory high ISO image. Perhaps the answer is to buy a 6D for the 100-400 and forget about crop cameras.

Incidentally, good used 1DM4s with lowish shutter counts sell at $4,000-5,500 in the UK which is more than I want to spend.

Have you tested the 400 and TC combo in poor light?

Neilyb wrote:Have you tested the 400 and TC combo in poor light?

Not extensively which needs to be done but the combo will snap to focus in light conditions that require ISO 3200 at 640ss and f8 which is probably the outer edge of my hand held shooting envelop. Lower shutter speeds or higher ISOs will probably not give me images that I find acceptable due to noise or camera shake. So whether the 5Diii combo can focus below this light level is a moot point. Nevertheless, I need to work on this and do more testing.

My 2 cents.  Two 5DIIIs; then you don't have to be concerned with different settings, buttons, etc.  Everything will be equal, focussing, IQ, etc, even for post processing.

Why buy anything? If you are trying to travel light leave the 400mm at home and just bring the 5D3 + 100-400 and the 5DC + 24-105. You expressed that you are not overly concerned with AF performance and even suggested manual focus setups... so the 100-400 is more than capable. Plus it has IS so you can shoot at much slower shutter speeds in low light which will allow you to use lower ISO's.

A note on the 400+1.4x. This will make it a 560mm non IS f8 lens. You need really fast shutter speeds to get great images, which means you need lots of light. This combo is not a low light setup, especially for bouncing around on a safari. Maybe a tripod rig in low light, but now you are not traveling light anymore.
I'd stick with what you have based on these circumstances. Have a great trip BTW.

crw816 wrote:Why buy anything?  If you are trying to travel light leave the 400mm at home and just bring the 5D3 + 100-400 and the 5DC + 24-105.  You expressed that you are not overly concerned with AF performance and even suggested manual focus setups... so the 100-400 is more than capable.  Plus it has IS so you can shoot at much slower shutter speeds in low light which will allow you to use lower ISO's.  

A note on the 400+1.4x.  This will make it a 560mm non IS f8 lens.  You need really fast shutter speeds to get great images, which means you need lots of light.  This combo is not a low light setup, especially for bouncing around on a safari.  Maybe a tripod rig in low light, but now you are not traveling light anymore.  
I'd stick with what you have based on these circumstances.  Have a great trip BTW.

Chris that's what I took last time and the set up was fine but sitting on the shelf at home was the 400 f5.6. If I did not have it I would be a happy bunny but the temptation is to go for yet more focal length without spending vast quantities of money. Hence the idea of adding a crop body and the 400 to the gear list as they will fit into my carry-on-bag. I made a mistake in my heading and should have asked "what is the best bang per buck crop body to attach to a 400 " since they all use roughly the same sensor. I do not need fs, multiple focusing points or fancy video just reliable centre point AF. I could just add the 400+1.4x to the kit and swap lenses on the 5Diii if and when I needed it. I guess I need to borrow a crop body and in the evening light do a 5Diii v crop body shoot out and see whether its worth buying a used crop body. Thanks for your interest.

I see.

Personally, I think you will get much better files if you shoot with the 5d3 and crop. Especially if you want to shoot in low light. Canon does not make a crop body right now that would do a better job in this situation. The 7d2 might, but we don't know that for sure yet. If you can't wait, the 7d would be a good choice. Nice AF, fps, and cheap cheap cheap right now.

Another option would be to rent a 300 f2.8ii. It plays very well with the extenders which would give you up to 600mm. It's not a "light and small lens" relatively, but if you leave the third body at home with the 400 it would make up for the extra size. Bringing the 400 AND the 100-400 is really redundant.

Not trying to convince you of anything, just that I don't think what you are asking about will necessarily get you what you are hoping for.

Perky,
If you do a test of a crop sensor, like a 7D1 and 5D3, here is the best way to compare.
5d3+400+1.4xTC versus 7D+400 no TC and use the same exposure time (drop the ISO by 2x).
Remember ISO does not change sensitivity, it only selects the range of signal to digitize.
For example, ISO 800 on the 5D3 digitizes 0 to 8100 photons per pixel, and the 7D at ISO 400
digitizes 0 to 8150 photons. With this configuration, you will find that the two images
are very close. As you already have a 5D3, and it has capable IS, that would be a fine
way to go.

But I do agree that no IS when one works with either of the above setups is a real limitation
on safari. A beanbag certainly helps, but at those focal lengths, IS is a major benefit.

But is a 100-400 plus 400 plus other lenses really that light? I travel on safari with a 300 f/2.8, 70-200 f/4 and 24-105.

Roger

Chris & Roger,

The background is I go to Tanzania most years as I am fluent in Swahili, know the country well and have a number of African friends who have established a toe hold in the safari business out of Arusha. I am very happy with the raw files produced by the 5D3 and 5Dc but yearn at times for a little more focal length. Trying to do this on the cheap by using a crop body does not appear to be an optimum solution from the posts here. (Roger - basically you are saying that 400 iso on the 7D is equivalent to 800 on the 5D3 if we digitalise 8100 photons giving the same exposure time or in my words the sensors have the same total light). I think I need to investigate the use of a 300 F2.8 plus converters as I am sure this will not be my last safari. Thanks for posting.

I am not equipped to get into a really tech conversation, but I have found the base measurement that DXO provides a good starting point to using ISO. Lets say they give a base of 1250, anything above that is an amplified signal. Anything lower can be recovered linearly from the sensor's bottom (100 iso)by boosting in Post Processing. ISO just becomes a meaning less left over from the film era. Obviously this isn't perfect for varying reason but in layman's terms backs up all the math the posters are using to explain the phenomena.