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by dbostedo on Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:50 pm
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Well Matt.. per what Rick said above, while that video camera is e mount, do you know if NEX lenses actually cover full frame? if not, you're back to what I was theorizing about earlier. Either way... I don't think the NEX lenses have been as small as id like them to be... so I'm still thinking that m4/3 is in my future
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by sdaconsulting on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:15 pm
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David,

1) No the e-mount lenses do not cover FF. The FF NEX camera will use the APS area when using E-mount glass.

2) All FF Sony alpha mount lenses work on the FF NEX with fast phase-detect AF using the new LA-EA3 alpha mount adaptor (that comes for free with the FF NEX camcorder).

3) NEX can adapt any glass from (practically) any and every lens mount ever made that covers the sensor.

4) You are comparing the IQ of a 4/3 sensor to the IQ of a full frame sensor. Assuming the NEX-9 gets the 36MP FF D800 sensor (made by Sony) when released next year, I think the cameras are in completely different categories. Of course, the 16MP micro 4/3 sensor is very nice but it's only 1/4 the area of a FF sensor. Not to take anything away from Micro 4/3 -- which is by all accounts a very good system.

5) If you want compact lenses that cover FF, rangefinder glass is probably the way to go. I have heard there is some really nice rangefinder glass in less popular mounts available for a few hundred dollars. To me, a FF 36 MP camera body with no mirror slap, electronic first curtain shutter, and a couple tiny rangefinder lenses sounds like the perfect hiking landscape camera. But YMMV.

I just hope Sony will hurry up and release their NEX-9 soon. . .
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by dbostedo on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:57 pm
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sdaconsulting wrote: 1) No the e-mount lenses do not cover FF. The FF NEX camera will use the APS area when using E-mount glass.
That's too bad, and again, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of owning a NEX body with a full frame sensor.
sdaconsulting wrote: 2) All FF Sony alpha mount lenses work on the FF NEX with fast phase-detect AF using the new LA-EA3 alpha mount adaptor (that comes for free with the FF NEX camcorder).
That's a valid option but again, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of owning a NEX body with a full frame sensor.
sdaconsulting wrote: 3) NEX can adapt any glass from (practically) any and every lens mount ever made that covers the sensor.
So can most other mirrorless cameras.
sdaconsulting wrote: 4) You are comparing the IQ of a 4/3 sensor to the IQ of a full frame sensor. Assuming the NEX-9 gets the 36MP FF D800 sensor (made by Sony) when released next year, I think the cameras are in completely different categories. Of course, the 16MP micro 4/3 sensor is very nice but it's only 1/4 the area of a FF sensor. Not to take anything away from Micro 4/3 -- which is by all accounts a very good system.
If your lens isn't covering the full frame sensor, then you're losing a lot of the IQ advantage. Granted, even a cropped D800 sensor is awfully good, but FF doesn't magically make the individual pixels better. A lot of the noise and IQ advantage from FF is because you have a lot more area collecting light in your image. So not using the full frame gives a bunch of that up. If the lens only covers APS-C, you can't get "full frame quality".

They would be better off using an APS-C sensor (if that's all the lenses can cover) that has the same technology as the D800, rather than wasting the cost of a full frame sensor in a body that can't really use it. I wonder how big a sensor the lenses do cover? Maybe it's close to FF and they'll just have a tiny crop factor in the NEX cameras, instead of APS-C.

Again, this is predicated on size and in my view the only reason to go mirrorless to me is for the size. If for you it's because of better live view, contrast detect AF, or other things, then of course the reasoning could be different. But it still seems silly to me to put a FF sensor in a camera that can't use it with its native lens mount.
sdaconsulting wrote: 5) If you want compact lenses that cover FF, rangefinder glass is probably the way to go. I have heard there is some really nice rangefinder glass in less popular mounts available for a few hundred dollars. To me, a FF 36 MP camera body with no mirror slap, electronic first curtain shutter, and a couple tiny rangefinder lenses sounds like the perfect hiking landscape camera. But YMMV.
My mileage does vary :D . Manual focus (which the range finder lenses would have) is a non-starter for me as a system. I've used a couple of old SLR manual focus lenses, and they're cool and fun to play with, but I wouldn't want that as my primary lens option.
sdaconsulting wrote: I just hope Sony will hurry up and release their NEX-9 soon. . .
It'll be nothing if not interesting! Nice to see so many options coming to fruition.
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by sdaconsulting on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:45 am
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dbostedo wrote:
sdaconsulting wrote: 1) No the e-mount lenses do not cover FF. The FF NEX camera will use the APS area when using E-mount glass.
That's too bad, and again, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of owning a NEX body with a full frame sensor.
I personally wouldn't buy any E-mount glass with my NEX-9 either unless they release some FF e-mount glass.
sdaconsulting wrote: 2) All FF Sony alpha mount lenses work on the FF NEX with fast phase-detect AF using the new LA-EA3 alpha mount adaptor (that comes for free with the FF NEX camcorder).
That's a valid option but again, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of owning a NEX body with a full frame sensor.
Well since I own a bunch of FF alpha mount glass I can use on it, this is definitely of interest to me.
sdaconsulting wrote: 3) NEX can adapt any glass from (practically) any and every lens mount ever made that covers the sensor.
So can most other mirrorless cameras.
But none of them are full frame, except NEX which now has a FF model in the lineup.
sdaconsulting wrote: 4) You are comparing the IQ of a 4/3 sensor to the IQ of a full frame sensor. Assuming the NEX-9 gets the 36MP FF D800 sensor (made by Sony) when released next year, I think the cameras are in completely different categories. Of course, the 16MP micro 4/3 sensor is very nice but it's only 1/4 the area of a FF sensor. Not to take anything away from Micro 4/3 -- which is by all accounts a very good system.
If your lens isn't covering the full frame sensor, then you're losing a lot of the IQ advantage.
Agreed, I would only be interested in using FF glass with a NEX-9, either Alpha mount glass or rangefinder glass (or any future E-mount, FF glass).

Again, this is predicated on size and in my view the only reason to go mirrorless to me is for the size. If for you it's because of better live view, contrast detect AF, or other things, then of course the reasoning could be different. But it still seems silly to me to put a FF sensor in a camera that can't use it with its native lens mount.
Well the FF NEX camcorder has two native lens mounts -- E-mount and Alpha mount with the provided, fully automated adaptor. This appears to be Sony's plan for its medium-long term lens mount strategy. E-mount for APS and Alpha mount w/ adaptor for FF glass.
5) Manual focus (which the range finder lenses would have) is a non-starter for me as a system. I've used a couple of old SLR manual focus lenses, and they're cool and fun to play with, but I wouldn't want that as my primary lens option.
Wide to standard rangefinder lenses are tiny in comparison to SLR lenses, which have a much longer registration distance. I'm perfectly happy with MF in conjunction with focus peaking for landscape photography, if I get a sensor along the lines of the D800 in a tiny, lightweight package I can use with a couple really lightweight, sharp lenses.
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by dbostedo on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:30 pm
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Matthew - I guess what I'm wondering from your point of view then, is why not just buy an Alpha camera? If it had focus peaking and a nice screen/LCD, why buy a NEX?

(And I wouldn't call using an adapter a "native" mount. Olympus does the same thing, as does Canon - I wouldn't call Oly OM the "native mount" of any of their cameras.)
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by sdaconsulting on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:39 pm
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dbostedo wrote:Matthew - I guess what I'm wondering from your point of view then, is why not just buy an Alpha camera? If it had focus peaking and a nice screen/LCD, why buy a NEX?

(And I wouldn't call using an adapter a "native" mount. Olympus does the same thing, as does Canon - I wouldn't call Oly OM the "native mount" of any of their cameras.)
I already own three Alpha mount cameras in our household. So the NEX brings me something very different to the table.

Well the Sony adapter turns the NEX cameras into the equivalent of the dSLTs. It uses the same AF module as the full sized cameras, etc. So you don't miss out on much, other than the stabilized sensor, if you buy a NEX + LA-EA3 instead of an Alpha.

As far as I have read, the Canon and Olympus adapters provide sluggish, "hunting" contrast-detect autofocus performance as they do not have phase-detect AF built into them and most dSLR lenses have really crappy AF performance without PDAF.

The Alpha 99 is much larger than a NEX-7. And the Alpha 99 + a 20mm Sigma 20/1.8 is much much bigger than a NEX-7 + any rangefinder 20mm lens. Three times the weight, really. Assuming they release a NEX-9 with the NEX-7 body, it's a huge win in my book. You can't mount rangefinder glass on an alpha mount camera either.

I think a NEX-9 is almost a certainty within the next year, given the RX1 and the new FF NEX camcorder.
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by Svein-Frode on Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:09 am
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I'm with Matthew here as well. Every step taken to make cameras smaller and sensors bigger are most welcomed. I now use the SONY RX100 for 90% of my shooting, and I still wish I had a smaller camera... What I love about SONY at the moment is their willingness to cater to many different types of photographers with innovative and high quality products.

I haven't been a SONY fan since the days of the F717 which is my favourite camera design of all time. The only camera I'd ever want larger than an RX100 would be a F717/828 type design with a modern "interior".
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by dbostedo on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:28 am
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I'm with you on the size Svein-Frode... and with Matthew. I guess I just don't care to have a full frame sensor. I like the crop factor to keep lenses smaller, and they crop sensors, for me, have plenty of IQ. Of course, I currently have a regular 4/3rds SLR, so I'm used to it.
David Bostedo
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