Moderator: Greg Downing

All times are UTC-05:00

  
« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Topic Locked  
 First unread post  | 6 posts | 
by pleverington on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:24 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Here's a chance to help a band of researchers working as volunteers to tag Snowys and track them...... all in order to help them...... in case you have missed it. Their goal is 15,000 dollars, (not much really if one thinks about it), and they already have half of that. They ask for a base contribution of 25 bucks, but one could donate even just a dollar all the way up to tens of thousands. I'm thinking they need the 15,000 now for their most immediate needs, but this only covers the present, and ongoing needs and excess funds would enable better and more thorough research down the line. So I ponied up 25 bucks cause I did get so many wonderful shots over the years of them and... heck ....it's just the least I could do. I figure with the thousands of photographers on this site who have indulged and enjoyed taking photos of the Snowies, we as a group could could make a difference ......and a statement too..



https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/project-snowstorm-2-0


They did make everything as easy as it could get to donate so one won't have to struggle at all in the least in that aspect.

Here's what they say about money contributed:

"Every penny of your contribution goes straight into the research -- no one associated with SNOWstorm is taking any kind of stipend or salary.

The transmitters are the most expensive element. Even with an extremely generous discount from the manufacturer, Cellular Tracking Technologies, they still cost $3,000 each. But unlike satellite transmitters, which rack up thousands of dollars annually in additional satellite fees, these transmitters work through the cell phone network for basically nothing. And being solar-powered, they last for years.

We must also pay for lab work and testing fees. We're exploring the genetics of snowy owls by examining their DNA, and analyzing the stable chemical isotopes in their feathers, blood and tissues, which tell us about their place of origin and diet over time.

Our team of wildlife pathologists and veterinarians conduct necropsies on owls that are killed in accidents or found dead, and while they're donating their time, there are also lab costs for toxicology, parasitology and histology tests. Your donation helps cover all of this."



25 bucks and you'll feel better today....

That is all...over and out*

Paul


****Oh..don't be shy to sound off if you do donate, it will help inspire others to do so also**
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:26 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Yep..Those Snowy Owls sure are a lot of fun to photograph!!

more on the research these fine folks are doing...
http://www.projectsnowstorm.org/


You folks will like this one...."meet the neighbors"
http://www.projectsnowstorm.org/maps/

What the transmitters look like and how very interesting to see graphically an owls movements on a map:
http://www.projectsnowstorm.org/tracking-snowy-owls/


The amount of data they are collecting is sure way more than I would ever know what to do with!
Check these maps out..
http://www.projectsnowstorm.org/posts/owl-goes-church/
Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by SCmzd on Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:07 pm
SCmzd
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5112
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Hi Paul, I do love snowy owls...people should donate their money to whatever they think is a worthy cause and I believe I understand the emotion and sentiment you've made this referral for.  You've a big heart and an even bigger cerebelum :)  I would not donate a red cent to this organization, only because imo they harass the snowy owls that I love.  They use live pigeons as bait.  The snowy owl is then manhandled.  Then it has a foreign device put on it's back.  Check this article out.  http://www.npr.org/2014/03/11/288762497 ... l-invasion   Does the owl look in any way stressed to you as it's manhandled?  I really dislike the first image in this article.  I notice they barely show the pigeon that they treated inhumanely to capture this owl....Then to top of the unpleasant experience of being trapped and marred, they try and stuff a dead house mouse down the owl's throat....two of the owls they harassed last year drowned to death....I'm sure the fact that they had foreign devices strapped to their backs had nothing to do with that...Then this same organization turns around and tries to negatively portray the feeding of their marked bird "Ramsey" in Minnesota....I've seen many many images of Ramsey on the net that are the results of Ramsey being fed live mice by (imo) caring nature lovers/photographers, and none of those images show a stressed manhandled bird, like the bird from this article....Paul, you have by far some of the best Red Tailed Hawk images I've ever seen, and I was under the impression that you had a long term relationship with that bird, and that you fed the bird as part of the image making process at times...even designed props for the images...no?  Would you support an organization that treated that Red Tailed Hawk the way they treated the snowy owl in this article?  Curious.  Much respect for your intellect and photographic talent sir....
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:21 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
SCmzd wrote:Hi Paul, I do love snowy owls...people should donate their money to whatever they think is a worthy cause and I believe I understand the emotion and sentiment you've made this referral for.  You've a big heart and an even bigger cerebelum :)  I would not donate a red cent to this organization, only because imo they harass the snowy owls that I love.  They use live pigeons as bait.  The snowy owl is then manhandled.  Then it has a foreign device put on it's back.  Check this article out.  http://www.npr.org/2014/03/11/288762497 ... l-invasion   Does the owl look in any way stressed to you as it's manhandled?  I really dislike the first image in this article.  I notice they barely show the pigeon that they treated inhumanely to capture this owl....Then to top of the unpleasant experience of being trapped and marred, they try and stuff a dead house mouse down the owl's throat....two of the owls they harassed last year drowned to death....I'm sure the fact that they had foreign devices strapped to their backs had nothing to do with that...Then this same organization turns around and tries to negatively portray the feeding of their marked bird "Ramsey" in Minnesota....I've seen many many images of Ramsey on the net that are the results of Ramsey being fed live mice by (imo) caring nature lovers/photographers, and none of those images show a stressed manhandled bird, like the bird from this article....Paul, you have by far some of the best Red Tailed Hawk images I've ever seen, and I was under the impression that you had a long term relationship with that bird, and that you fed the bird as part of the image making process at times...even designed props for the images...no?  Would you support an organization that treated that Red Tailed Hawk the way they treated the snowy owl in this article?  Curious.  Much respect for your intellect and photographic talent sir....
I think your points are well deserving a good response. None of the things you brought up are false entirely or even at all.

I did read that two had drowned, but they did get caught in offshore storms they said. That broke my heart to read that, and I also had a thought too that having transmitters on their backs might of contributed to that happening. No one can say for absolutely sure what happened, but when I saw and read how light and loose the transmitters and harnesses were I don't beleive that they were of any huge detriment. But I can't deny they had zero effect. Only pure bird would be that. But it might have no more detriment than say if one was to wear a sweater or something.

Clarifying the use of the word harassment must be looked at at this point it seems. Many times a word will take on a different meaning from the common vernacular as they do in law and medical dictionaries. Science research word meanings do this also. Come down to it everybody is harassing wildlife. Simply by being here, taking up their habitat space, driving our cars, filling the air with noise that confuses , redistributing their food sources, killing them for pleasure this is all harassment no? But I realize that does not exonerate these researchers from what they are doing, and yes this might be purely only the best of two choices...... neither one perfect.  Tough, tough, tough,......  but reality demands us to act. The reality is that we live in a world now where most of it needs our intervening management as we have altered it to the point there is no way any longer nature is in balance on its own. For example we are having to have refuges and protected lands and breeding programs and species protection laws and so on...you know the situation. Is it hard to follow then that with resolve we now need to know everything we can, especially migration habits, but certainly also eating, mating, statistical stuff like bird counts and so on too. Again you know the story. So harassment it may be, but then again it's not. If your looking at it from the perspective of how can we continueto ensure the snowy owls will not only survive in our reshaped world view, but how they can thrive.

I don't like it either. If those transmitters were leather bound beasts this would be a real problem. But being solar powered with little need for a large battery they are light. Like other animals getting transmitters, it helps enormously that in no other way can be achieved. Whose going to give the legislators the right info if not the researchers? And how will that info be obtained? If in a perfect world..we'll you probably know what that would look like :D

To give some balance did you read each writeup on each owl by any chance? These owls are heading for the airports. The team has moved hundreds of them from the airports because with the tracker on they knew they were there. I think I read 120. Some of the owls got killed by airplanes but a lot less than would have if there were no relocation activities going on. I fly--I'm a pilot. Here in Cleveland we have an airport on the south shore of lake Erie. They have a staff that takes care of wildlife as bird strikes are a constant and real problem. Of course they are mostly about people and not the birds. But I remember talking to the one guy and he told me they trapped a red tail and moved him a few miles away. I knew when he was telling me the story that that was a bad omen. Sure enough the hawk came back and they shot him. They do not spend much time on conservation within airports UNLESS there is a local group that can be called upon to take the animal and move it a distance that will actually work. A few miles for the hawk?? Of course he came back!  But understand something, airport wildlife management does not broadcast what they feel they have to do. Every year hundreds of your beloved snowies are being killed along with any other larger bird on airport grounds. Think about it. How are they supposed to spend time on every bird, and then flocks of birds too,and deer, and foxes, wolves, maybe bear and caribou and any and everything else too.  They are always short staffed to maybe two or three people and believe me they have guns. This is the reality world the researches are trying to find solutions for.

Is it harassment.  Yeah....... it is. Do I like it has to be done??  I hate that it has to be done. Do I like they have to bait with live pigeons?? Hell no...I think the pigeon is one of the most underrated, maligned, beautiful bird there is. We are lucky to have the little guys. Talk about survivors ....


All our wildlife is in trouble to one degree or another. Some at present might be ok, but down the road they certainly will have their feathers up against the wall. Most have some problem or problems with survival. How can we help them if we know little to nothing about them. Or don't know about the things that are specifically a problem for them. Before you can fix a problem we have to know how. To know how means knowing the causes and that means learning all that we can. Otherwise we blunder in the dark trying this and that and whatever all the while hoping.

Anyways, these researchers are from a variety of professions and are volunteers all. That says right there it's not about research grants and paydays. And they mostly are all about wildlife and nature as a life's work so I gotta believe they know a lot you and I don't.

I'm not at all insensitive to your statements they have a ring of truth. But research of this type has helped so many others animals already that on any pragmatic view of snowy owl preservation one cannot discard the value. It might even be paramount someday...one never knows.

Just thought of this one--suppose a radio bird goes down. Still alive but on the ground, unable to fend or feed. These guys will pick that fact up and perhaps be able to do a rescue. I can't say for sure, but it might be that more owls are saved by doing the tagging with transmitters than the other way around. Just a thought*

You should volunteer at a bird hab center some time.(If you have excuse the presumption) I think you would love it, but they would handle a snowy exactly as you saw the snowy being handled in that article. Snowies can put on a mean bite and those talons are not to be played with. If your anywhere near DC there's one called Tri state. They even have a nursery filled with baby birds every spring of all types that visitors can watch anytime. It's great.

Yeah the hawk was special. Tens years I worked with him. Never tried to let him get too habituated, but sadly he has not been around since that severe winter a year ago. That from what I can discern, was so unusual of a relationship that perhaps only one in a thousand persons ever know anything like it. When wildlife wants to come to you rather than you wanting to go to them that seems to change everything. The more one puts into something the more one will get out on that one...


No perfect solution here, but I don't think doing nothing works too well. We did that....we broke it....now we gotta fix it.

Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"


Last edited by pleverington on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Locked  

by SCmzd on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:55 pm
SCmzd
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5112
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Those are beautiful words and thoughts Paul...thank you! In my heart of hearts, way down there past pride and the desire to be right or ethically superior or dominate, have fun, or whatever else....that is why I feed birds...because I love them and want to help them....some of the owls I try to help do come to me, because they know I have something beneficial to offer and it's really a mutually beneficial thing, and it does not look or feel like anything I see project snowstorm doing. Not every owl cares to interact with me and that is fine. But some do, and I've no misgivings about feeding them at all, and in all my experiences and interactions with nature, those are some of my most cherished....that is my way of "fixing" it, as messed up as some folks think that is.... That is all, I can't articulate it as well or as thoughtfully as you do...but I feel it.
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:38 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
It's a tough world. There are no absolutes that one could say it's either this or it's that, yet we all try to make it that way. Everything is a matter of viewpoint, and perception, and compromise. But fight for the wildlife and nature as you are now and do whatever you can in the future. Looking at those Snowy owl's faces is really visceral. I hope and believe I've helped them somewhat at least by supporting these researchers. I guess just reading how transmitters have helped with so many other animals such as wolves, bears caribou, foxes, cranes....really you name it, that they will also help the Snowies.


Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
6 posts | 
  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group