« Previous topic | Next topic »  
Topic Locked  
 First unread post  | 11 posts | 
by Blck-shouldered Kite on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:55 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
http://blog.seattlepi.com/bigscience/20 ... 25361101=0

This has been going on for decades.  Evidently it is now reaching critical stages.  I am sure Santa Fe Joe will know more about this.  

Canada has basically said……."Don't come after our water when your's is gone."

We think that this crisis is unique to the Southwest.  Nope.    

In Maine, we allowed the Nestles corporation (from Switzerland) to sneak in here, tap our ground water and establish Poland Springs.  They are going to suck every bit of groundwater they can from Maine.  They employ many people and now Mainers are on their board.  They are here to stay and whenever I think about it…..it angers me. Poland Springs can extract that water and truck it off to sell it anywhere.  That is a desecration of nature…..Maine's nature. 

What I envision:
When the groundwater reaches a certain point of depletion, local governments will turn to desalination.  Man is arrogant enough to think that he has all the answers.  But it seems to me that as the density of desalination plants increases, the salinity of the oceans will change so that current marine species will not survive.  Ok, ok…..I know that this is a very long way off.  But remember, most people are not even considering the problem at this time.  Human populations continue to go unchecked….everywhere except possibly China.

In some overseas lands, thousands of children die every day…..for lack of food and water.  They continue reproducing and the cycle goes on unchecked.  

We are very naive if we do not see the water shortage coming here and we continue to do nothing about it.    

Of course, Rush Limbaugh and all his followers will devoutly insist that there is no problem and this is just a natural cycle.  How long will some of you continue to listen to these people before you see the actual truth ?  

Here is one reference:  Mirage, Florida and the Vanishing Water of the Eastern U.S……by Cynthia Barnett

Robert King
www.itsaboutnature.net
Topic Locked  

by Steven Major on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:18 am
Steven Major
Forum Contributor
Posts: 324
Joined: 5 May 2008
Location: Prescott, AZ
Please...if you need to point a finger, point it at yourself and your leaders. It was the government and citizens of Maine who allowed Poland Springs to be in Maine. We all have the options of law and democracy,. Use them or loose them.

Prescott Arizona has been irresponsibly, and increasingly mining (meaning it never gets replaced) water for decades.  This is why, it ain't pretty.
1. Corrupt and irresponsible politicians permit home building corporations to have their worthless desert land annexed into the town. By doing so, the corporations get streets, water and sewer lines, etc.(at taxpayer expense), then proceed to build large quantities of high density homes that produce even larger quantities of thirsty mouths.
2. The largest group of residents are retired military people who are comfortable doing what authority figures tell them to do. They offer no resistance to the mismanagement of resources by town officials. Also, for the most part,  all retirees in town believe (maybe correctly) that they will be dead before the water problem is in their face. So, they just don't care about the future availability of water or have any desire to manage it.
3. The second largest population in town are Mormons. A chief tenet (most would say requirement)of that religion is procreation. Producing 4 children per couple is the norm which produces additional strains on the inadequate local water supply.
4. In Arizona, all land owners by law (a holdover mining laws) have no rights or claim to anything that lies under the surface of the property they own. Towns (with the help of water producing business) have used this law to ban or discourage homeowners from collecting rainwater from their roofs...the thinking being that ground water is pubic property, and collecting rain (that would become groundwater)is steeling from the public.

I apologize if any of these truths are upsetting. Looking the other way is comfortable, but always results in a greater future cost.
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:09 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
1.   Don't apologize; You didn't point out the problem to this forum……I did. :wink:    

2.   It is going to get very, very nasty and it is not going to go away……ever.  And you thought people were funny about their money.    

3.   You wrote:  "Please...if you need to point a finger, point it at yourself and your leaders."  Re-read my paragraph that starts with the words "In Maine…."

I was not even in Maine when this all happened.  If I was, I would have raised hell.  
You obviously do not know when Poland Springs started in Maine.  Neither did I.  Here is the reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_Spring

I feel very badly for all the critters in the SW ecosystems.  It is only going to get worse, way worse.  And it is all caused by too many people and a lot of selfishness.  

It is enough for me to now realize that I will not be retiring to NM, as I thought I might like to.    I have another place in mind with just as much nature and plenty of water…..at least for the remainder of my life.  

Robert King
www.itsaboutnature.net
Topic Locked  

by jeff Parker on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:09 pm
jeff Parker
Forum Contributor
Posts: 438
Joined: 9 Oct 2006
Location: Smithville, Tx
It's everywhere. Here in Texas the politicians are giving corporations tax breaks to move here, at the current residents expense, and the population continues to balloon. Long term there is not enough water for the people already here, much less encouraging more people to move here. And then there is family planning and the religious right....
Topic Locked  

by Blck-shouldered Kite on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:16 pm
Blck-shouldered Kite
Forum Contributor
Posts: 2669
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Maine
jeff Parker wrote:"It's everywhere.  Here in Texas the politicians are giving corporations tax breaks to move here, at the current residents expense, and the population continues to balloon.  Long term there is not enough water for the people already here, much less encouraging more people to move here.  And then there is family planning and the religious right…."   Yes, and they believe in more pro-creation.  It's insane.  
Topic Locked  

by Scott Baxter on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:23 pm
Scott Baxter
Forum Contributor
Posts: 249
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Location: UTAH
Depletion of water sources is very much a global issue and possibly the biggest threat to our environment from a human survival perspective. Lester Brown has documented several threats to society and puts water depletion at the top. Here is a link to some of his research. http://www.earth-policy.org/book_bytes/ The Plan B books, World on Edge and Full Planet Empty Plates are all good reads. I still maintain that human greed is the biggest driver behind society collapse, Tim Flannery and Jared Diamond have both done a good job of documenting this in their books. The controlling elite will destroy their own society and the environment to maintain their unsustainable life style.
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:24 am
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
I wonder with the global warming happening at the same time producing more and more water if this will indeed be as big of a problem as it seems to be now?. I know that the thirsty states all look at those great lakes with a drop of drool one their lips, but that would be some battle there....unless...unless the great lakes are overflowing due to rising levels.

But people can and do live in deserts with very little water it's just they won't be able to live like they used to --watering their lawns and filling swimming pools and washing cars and so on....

Just a couple of thoughts..

Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:42 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
Blck-shouldered Kite wrote: This has been going on for decades.  Evidently it is now reaching critical stages.  I am sure Santa Fe Joe will know more about this.  

Robert King
www.itsaboutnature.net
I have very strong opinions, but little hope of changing things. Money rules, as we all know. Texas has been fighting New Mexico for water for a long time (I guess they don't get rain in Texas!!!). Now they are even wanting the chile (yes, in NM we spell it right, unlike Texas) farmers to stop pumping our own ground water. That is one of the crops we are most famous for. 
In Santa Fe, the city entered into an agreement with the county and a developer (Las Campanas) to share water that is both being pumped from the ground and diverted from the Rio Grande. As I recall, this was in exchange for allowing the water pipeline to cross their property. A large portion of this water is used to water a golf course within the development. We presently have at least 5 golf courses in the vicinity. After the development was to become established, they were to use treated effluent to water the golf course. The problem is that many of these homes are owned by the wealthy and they are not used but for a few weeks a year. There will never be the volume of effluent necessary to water all the greens, so the use of our drinking water to water their greens will be eternal. We can't even have lawns or decent gardens anymore because of things like this (we're on water restrictions), while they can run their sprinklers on the greens for only the elite to enjoy for a moment. To me it is criminal to do this kind of deal! Politics irk me to no end regarding almost every subject it relates to. It's way sad to me to see how the wealthy rule with no regard for anybody else. I'm getting to old to get my blood pressure up about the things I have little hope of changing, so I will just continue to enjoy the things that give me pleasure, and avoid bumping my head on a wall in frustration. Life's too short to live under constant stress, so I learned early on to just enjoy every minute and ignore the ignoramuses. Let it be on their consciences (if they have any) and I will be content  and peaceful in my own life and mind! 

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:22 am
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
SantaFeJoe wrote:
Blck-shouldered Kite wrote: This has been going on for decades.  Evidently it is now reaching critical stages.  I am sure Santa Fe Joe will know more about this.  

Robert King
www.itsaboutnature.net
I have very strong opinions, but little hope of changing things. Money rules, as we all know. Texas has been fighting New Mexico for water for a long time (I guess they don't get rain in Texas!!!). Now they are even wanting the chile (yes, in NM we spell it right, unlike Texas) farmers to stop pumping our own ground water. That is one of the crops we are most famous for. 
In Santa Fe, the city entered into an agreement with the county and a developer (Las Campanas) to share water that is both being pumped from the ground and diverted from the Rio Grande. As I recall, this was in exchange for allowing the water pipeline to cross their property. A large portion of this water is used to water a golf course within the development. We presently have at least 5 golf courses in the vicinity. After the development was to become established, they were to use treated effluent to water the golf course. The problem is that many of these homes are owned by the wealthy and they are not used but for a few weeks a year. There will never be the volume of effluent necessary to water all the greens, so the use of our drinking water to water their greens will be eternal. We can't even have lawns or decent gardens anymore because of things like this (we're on water restrictions), while they can run their sprinklers on the greens for only the elite to enjoy for a moment. To me it is criminal to do this kind of deal! Politics irk me to no end regarding almost every subject it relates to. It's way sad to me to see how the wealthy rule with no regard for anybody else. I'm getting to old to get my blood pressure up about the things I have little hope of changing, so I will just continue to enjoy the things that give me pleasure, and avoid bumping my head on a wall in frustration. Life's too short to live under constant stress, so I learned early on to just enjoy every minute and ignore the ignoramuses. Let it be on their consciences (if they have any) and I will be content  and peaceful in my own life and mind! 

Joe
Hey Joe----Has there been any organized effort at all to stop the misuse of a scarce natural resource you described??

Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

by SantaFeJoe on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 pm
User avatar
SantaFeJoe
Forum Contributor
Posts: 8622
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere Out In The Wilds
pleverington wrote: Hey Joe----Has there been any organized effort at all to stop the misuse of a scarce natural resource you described??

Paul
Hey Paul,
It doesn't seem that anything can stop the political moves being made around here. There was a ranch south of town (Google "Santa Fe Canyon Ranch" or "La Bajada Ranch" if you want to see some of the county documents) that was bought from an actress (Marsha Mason, as in "The Goodbye Girl") by some people associated with politics. They sold part of it to the county who had no clear plans for the property. It was clearly a political move. Now the county wants to send some of the water from the same sources I mentioned in my last post to this ranch, including both the part the county bought and the property that remained with the sellers. I'm getting to old to even want to get involved or bump my head against the wall in frustration, as I stated in my previous post.

Joe
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.  -Pablo Picasso
Topic Locked  

by pleverington on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:14 pm
pleverington
Forum Contributor
Posts: 5355
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
SantaFeJoe wrote:
pleverington wrote: Hey Joe----Has there been any organized effort at all to stop the misuse of a scarce natural resource you described??

Paul
Hey Paul,
It doesn't seem that anything can stop the political moves being made around here. There was a ranch south of town (Google "Santa Fe Canyon Ranch" or "La Bajada Ranch" if you want to see some of the county documents) that was bought from an actress (Marsha Mason, as in "The Goodbye Girl") by some people associated with politics. They sold part of it to the county who had no clear plans for the property. It was clearly a political move. Now the county wants to send some of the water from the same sources I mentioned in my last post to this ranch, including both the part the county bought and the property that remained with the sellers. I'm getting to old to even want to get involved or bump my head against the wall in frustration, as I stated in my previous post.

Joe
I got my fingers crossed that you still got a bit of kick in your tank Joe....some people still listen to the elders.*


Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
Topic Locked  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by:  
11 posts | 
  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group