Photographers vs Audubon

Marina Scarr wrote:   How about all the beach goers who allow their children and dogs to run through beach nesting colonies?  WHY MUST PHOTOGRAPHERS ALWAYS BE BLAMED BY AUDUBON?

It's time Audubon gave an honest and more reasonable explanation of why there are dips in nesting and activity in certain areas.  Audubon is in a perfect position to help bridge the gap between photographers and nature lovers.  It's time they got to work on this front.

They don't cordon off the nesting area  during nesting period ? Interesting.
Why are we blamed ? Because we're an easy target. That's why we have to educate ourselves and others around us.
By the way, once you learn few things you'll realize that when a bird comes to you (and NOT because it's baited), your photographs will be much better than when you chase after a bird.

Like I said before,our photography is not the most important thing in the universe so let's enjoy ourselves while taking pictures and being outside and try not to be jerks.

I think you should post your reply at the site where that article resides.

Andrew_5488 wrote:

Marina Scarr wrote:   How about all the beach goers who allow their children and dogs to run through beach nesting colonies?  WHY MUST PHOTOGRAPHERS ALWAYS BE BLAMED BY AUDUBON?

It's time Audubon gave an honest and more reasonable explanation of why there are dips in nesting and activity in certain areas.  Audubon is in a perfect position to help bridge the gap between photographers and nature lovers.  It's time they got to work on this front.

I think you should post your reply at the site where that article resides.

I plan to write directly to Audubon but haven't gotten around to it yet.  I want to make sure I am fully informed and there are other things I want to address when I communicate with them directly.  

The nesting areas on the beaches are cordoned off but that doesn't keep kids and dogs from running through them on a regular basis.  The nesting area out at the site in question is not cordoned off.  It's an island and contrary to what was expressed in the article, very few folks make it out there.

I've been going to FL in April for twenty years. Almost every time I visit beaches I see children running thru flocks of resting terns and shorebirds. 
Parents are always nearby either to cheer on the kids or to get photos of the event. I have spoken to some parents about why their kids shouldn't be harassing the birds. Most of the birds are declining and of conservation concern status. 
I think that is a real problem because it happens almost constantly.  When dogs are added to the mix it is much worse. Birds see dogs as predators and in my experience the birds have a more fearful and lasting reaction when dogs are running on the beach, leashed or not. 
Paul

Paul Fusco wrote:I've been going to FL in April for twenty years. Almost every time I visit beaches I see children running thru flocks of resting terns and shorebirds. 
Parents are always nearby either to cheer on the kids or to get photos of the event. I have spoken to some parents about why their kids shouldn't be harassing the birds. Most of the birds are declining and of conservation concern status. 
I think that is a real problem because it happens almost constantly.  When dogs are added to the mix it is much worse. Birds see dogs as predators and in my experience the birds have a more fearful and lasting reaction when dogs are running on the beach, leashed or not. 
Paul

Paul I don't mean to be smart alecky...but our local parks department hire border collies to harass the local waterfowl to no avail. 

Marina Scarr wrote:

Andrew_5488 wrote:

Marina Scarr wrote:   How about all the beach goers who allow their children and dogs to run through beach nesting colonies?  WHY MUST PHOTOGRAPHERS ALWAYS BE BLAMED BY AUDUBON?

It's time Audubon gave an honest and more reasonable explanation of why there are dips in nesting and activity in certain areas.  Audubon is in a perfect position to help bridge the gap between photographers and nature lovers.  It's time they got to work on this front.

I think you should post your reply at the site where that article resides.

I plan to write directly to Audubon but haven't gotten around to it yet.  I want to make sure I am fully informed and there are other things I want to address when I communicate with them directly.  

The nesting areas on the beaches are cordoned off but that doesn't keep kids and dogs from running through them on a regular basis.  The nesting area out at the site in question is not cordoned off.  It's an island and contrary to what was expressed in the article, very few folks make it out there.

Likely they just do not have enough volunteers to monitor the cordoned off areas on the beach. Kids (and their or other peoples dogs) running thru such areas are likely not educated about why such areas are being cordoned off.  And kids being kids.  Dogs. Well, what do dogs know about such things?    Nature photographers (most if not all are of adult age) on the other-hand, likely have been educated and are aware about such matters.  So, if they are seen encroaching, especially if they make it  a business to do so, maybe there is more culpability and why the emphasis is being put on them?  I don't know much about the area other than from what I have read.  Here in Ontario, Canada the piping plover is endangered.  Areas of the beach where they nest are cordoned off.  But they also have volunteers who man these cordoned off areas.  They know just having an area cordoned off is not enough.  Volunteers keep watch, enforce and educate.  Otherwise, you'll have kids and dogs running thru it like elsewhere. 

Mike in O wrote:

Paul Fusco wrote:I've been going to FL in April for twenty years. Almost every time I visit beaches I see children running thru flocks of resting terns and shorebirds. 
Parents are always nearby either to cheer on the kids or to get photos of the event. I have spoken to some parents about why their kids shouldn't be harassing the birds. Most of the birds are declining and of conservation concern status. 
I think that is a real problem because it happens almost constantly.  When dogs are added to the mix it is much worse. Birds see dogs as predators and in my experience the birds have a more fearful and lasting reaction when dogs are running on the beach, leashed or not. 
Paul

Paul I don't mean to be smart alecky...but our local parks department hire border collies to harass the local waterfowl to no avail. 

Yes Mike, when it comes to keeping geese from dropping their loads on the parklands, bringing in a border collie or two is a popular method. Problem with that is that the dogs need to be brought in on a regular basis. And the geese become somewhat used to them.
I was talking about beach birds such as terns, plovers and sandpipers. Just about all are of conservation concerns with declining populations. When their flocks are continually harassed by children and/or dogs it makes them use up energy that most will need for migration or for breeding. Not to mention it unnecessarily drives them away from good habitat (which is why they are there in the first place).

Paul

There are never going to be enough volunteers! Further many of these nesting spots are on out islands that are not easy to get to. People stop there on their boats with their kids and dogs, and those areas cannot be manned 24/7. It's simply not feasible.

My point is that Audubon rather than writing a one-sided article which isn't even accurate could be focusing on educating the PUBLIC and building communication between birders, nature lovers and photographers. They would get a lot further in their cause than by bashing a few photographers when the majority are respectful when in the field and love their subjects.

Well put Marina -- unfortunately bashing an easily identifiable group is so much easier than actually launching a broader educational effort.

I confess to not knowing the daily goings on at that location. I am a nature photographer and it can get annoying sometimes when some over-zealous folks get on your case when there obviously isn't anything wrong (approaching shorebirds). These types are in the minority. I have very good field craft for shorebirds as some birders have noted. I can get close to some skittish shorebirds while others can't. It's called understanding your subject. Yes, I may have flushed the occasional shorebird but that is part of the learning process.  You learn which ones are more skittish than the others (even of the same species) and adjust your approach. I have had Bonaparte's Gulls in breeding plumage walk right up to me in the water.

Now as for the Audubon article, here is what I got from it which may not be the same as what others had perceived as the message. From the article it sounds like they are ticked off about photographers who know that such nesting birds are of a certain conservation status. The conservation folks have followed and studied these birds over a long period of time. They likely have seen the results of folks getting too close especially over a continued duration and in large enough numbers over time. They have taken measures to "limit" the disturbance to these "sensitive" birds. These conservationist/naturalist who have been charged with the health and preservation of these birds know they cannot watch and monitor the birds 24/7 nor stop every person who might end up disturbing them. If they see a kid or a dog or a family get close, they know these folks likely do not know any better. And likely they're a chance occurrence. They're not going to go back on a regular basis to do the same thing over and over again. So, the conservationist/naturalist view these types of people with that lens and perspective. Then you have another group of folks who clearly know the status of the birds, know the boundaries put in place but yet do it anyways. I am NOT saying whether they are right or wrong but that is likely how the conservationist/naturalist see them.  To make it worse, they do it as a business (likely the conservationist/naturalist's perspective) making tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands doing it. So, there is a money factor as motivator for approaching these birds. It's a business. And as mentioned in the article, the folks they bring along on these workshops will go back on their own later and tell their friends and their friend's friends etc. (not my opinion, just quoting what was said in the article ) I am sure the conservation people view this group of people in a different light, a different lens and perspective. I think the article was written to help "educate" folks. If I were to personally venture into that area one day, it'll always be in the back of mind what I should not be doing and why.  I'll be on the lookout for that delimiter or boundary indicator. This is what I got from the article.  Am I incorrect to see it like that?  Did I miss something?  Am I way out in left-field for having gotten that from the article?

What I don't care for are the mixed messages from Audobon in regards to this and other articles regarding ethics and bird photography. Example...they single out bird photographers in this article in regards to questionable ethics/nest photography....then they give one of the top 100 awards to a wide angle lens shot of a common tern colony that took me 5 minutes in a google search to find out that the photographer used his iphone to take the shot and commented at this site http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/photos/4503915/ that "The trick is to hold your phone as high as you can and the terns will swoop down and attack it. They can be really aggressive! Just keep snapping pictures until you get a winner." I guess Kenn Kaufman...the guy that "vets" the images that Audobon receives, was not familiar with what a distressed tern at a nesting site looks like.... Booooo! And not to knock the photographer...it's a great image with lots of visual impact....but what the ****, have some consistency in your message Audobon. I could point out a number of other inconsistencies from this year's top 100...but I think... point made. Also, FWIW, this article was incorrect in stating that "Last year in Minnesota, a huge influx of Snowy Owls, Northern Hawk Owls, and Great Gray Owls descended from Canada and the Arctic,".....there was an influx of snowy owls...over 300 reported in the state....there was not an influx of ggo or nho, and in reality, the ones present were probably resident birds. Oh, and of those over 300 snowy owls in the state....I would estimate that MAYBE 7 or 8 of them were fed, and probably only 1 or 2 were baited with fake lures vs being fed live mice. But out comes an infamous GoPro incident, that is actually probably misrepresented as well...for the real story check out Owl About Minnesota on Facebook and hear from the actual gentleman that used the GoPro...."vetting" images huh Audobon? How about you "vet" the facts in your article too Oh, and also FWIW, the second attempt at making feeding live mice to owls illegal in Minnesota failed....again....

SCmzd wrote:Oh, and also FWIW, the second attempt at making feeding live mice to owls illegal in Minnesota failed....again....

Interesting news.  I don't ever see something like that going thru up here either.  Most people who rail (I am not talking about people who feel a certain way but those who are very vocal), and they are in the minority, against such things do so based mostly on emotional reasons. You'll have a hard time convincing a conservation officer that feeding an owl that has come south in the winter in search of food and survival, that giving them a helping hand is a bad thing.  This may be the reason why it is a legal practice and still is and for the foreseeable future anyway. 

Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion.  But when one tries to drive ones own views down someone else's throat, that is when you cross the line.  Some of these individuals are persistent.  They may even resort to childish tantrums and antics if others do not kowtow to their way of thinking.  They want to get their way no matter how.  They may be very judgemental.  Perhaps they have been accustomed to getting their way in life and not learned to be tolerant of other views. You are entitled to and can share your views and opinions but must respect that not everyone shares it or must share it.  I do not have to take one side or another as I see pros and cons for both. Unless it is the law, then that's another story. 

This coming winter and the one following it and the one following that one, people will continue to feed owls.  I do not see it changing one iota.  I do not have to agree or disagree as I respect that as long as it is legal, it is a personal choice.  Not going to let anyone "bully" me into thinking one way or another.  If they don't see things OUR way, let's bully and harass them until they do. Really? That is basically what the really vocal types try to do.  They'll have their way in certain countries (NK) where everyone must think the same way or pretend to anyways out of fear of serious retribution.  Great country (Canada and USA) we live in though. We can make up our own minds and respect that others can feel differently.  

PS. The above has nothing to do with the Audubon thing.  The Audubon issue is about conservation and sensitive nesting birds. A whole different matter.

Mike in O wrote:

...but our local parks department hire border collies to harass the local waterfowl to no avail. 

They do that locally here to scare off Canada Geese.  They used to hire this fella and his dog and the dog would chase the many geese that both nest and feed on the nicely cut grass at a local park.  That lasted maybe a year or two.  People are allowed to walk their dogs at this park, so it may not have been necessary to pay someone to have a run at the geese a couple of times a day. 

At another location, they used a drone to scare geese away.  They also applied something to the ground which apparently geese do not like.  We do have a lot of geese and they do poop everywhere but at least goose poop doesn't really stink up the bottom of your shoes like dog pop does.  If you ever step on dog poop, you'll know it and the stink just follows you.  Nothing short of a good scrubbing with detergent will get rid of the odour.  Goose poop smell goes away.



I think the geese are still winning so now they're looking at more drastic measures.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/shell-shocked-shaking-eggs-can-deform-baby-geese-experts-say