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by pleverington on Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:58 am
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http://www.ewg.org/meateatersguide/a-me ... l-impacts/


don't be put off by the pop up pledge screen*
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by Steven Major on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:20 am
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If not for the planet, maybe do it for yourself. The studies I have read suggest avoiding red meat will extend anyone's life 5-10 years. I avoid all farmed fish from anywhere...here in Arizona, fish farms are built by and near chicken and egg producers. Guess what the fish eat.
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by pleverington on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:19 am
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Another reason to start your own garden me thinks. I found all 8 pages of the study pretty darn interesting. I love lentils and all the others things that don't produce much environmental fallout so no problem there for me, but wonder just how complete are they for protein and nutrition in general. Do we absolutely have to have meat?? And if so how much really is needed? Page 4 talks about the red meat hazards.

I've always felt we should be eating a diet similar to the one our evolutionary ancestors did.  This makes sense to me since if we evolved for millions of years eating a fairly similar way how could our bodies change enough in the span of a few thousand years to allow time to adapt to a factory processed diet that most now indulge in.

Then there is the CDC studies showing that 60 % of us are overweight and 39% are obese in the USA.

Haven't we all been indoctrinated into some very bad habits??


Paul
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by baldsparrow on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:13 pm
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We can exist perfectly well on a vegan diet provided we are aware of certain nutritional deficiencies that will result from eating no meat and take steps to replace the missing items.

(Quote) eliminating all animal products from the diet increases the risk of certain nutritional deficiencies. Micronutrients of special concern for the vegan include vitamins B-12 and D, calcium, and long-chain n–3 (omega-3) fatty acids. Unless vegans regularly consume foods that are fortified with these nutrients, appropriate supplements should be consumed. In some cases, iron and zinc status of vegans may also be of concern because of the limited bioavailability of these minerals.

Vitamin B-12 is the one to really watch there, especially in growing children.

It is a fallacy to assume that our ancestors lived mostly on vegetable. Humans have evolved as natural omnivores and historically, while eating less meat than we do today, always had some meat in our diets. They don't talk about hunter-gatherers for nothing.
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by Jeff Colburn on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:24 pm
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I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years with no problems. I get protein from whey, beans, lintels and cheese. Pop a B complex daily and I'm ready to go. If you're a vegetarian, and find yourself craving sugar, it means you're not getting enough protein.

Have Fun,
Jeff
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by bradmangas on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:06 pm
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Typically sugar cravings are from the lack of fats in ones diet which could be construed as protein in the case of cheese. Keep in mind not all fats are created equal and fats that are considered medium chain triglycerides are essential to human health. These MCT fats replace the need for sugars (though there is very little if any bodily need for sugars to begin with). MCT's are naturally produced in proteins rich foods such as animal fats and dairy but not in vegetables with similar protein amounts. Balance is the key to health. There are a few non-meat foods that do have these MCT's benefits such as olives, nuts, avocados, so they can be acquired without eating meat. Regardless of the source they are a vital part of healthy organs. People use sugars as a quick energy boost and this is exactly what MCT's do in the body. They do not get stored as fats but are used as an energy source. Grains/legumes will not reduce the cravings for sugars and in many cases grains produce sugars (which may reduce the craving because you are actually consuming food that turns to sugar in the body)which is a problem in itself.

Large scale animal product has many issues including environmental. Living in Kansas I frequently have the opportunity to view large herds of cattle grazing on the prairie with a backdrop of Jeffery Energy Center, a coal burning power plant. I have never considered the cattle or T-Bone on my plate to be in the same category of environment concern as the cattle grazing on the prairie.
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by pleverington on Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:11 am
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bradmangas wrote:Typically sugar cravings are from the lack of fats in ones diet which could be construed as protein in the case of cheese. Keep in mind not all fats are created equal and fats that are considered medium chain triglycerides are essential to human health. These MCT fats replace the need for sugars (though there is very little if any bodily need for sugars to begin with). MCT's are naturally produced in proteins rich foods such as animal fats and dairy but not in vegetables with similar protein amounts. Balance is the key to health. There are a few non-meat foods that do have these MCT's benefits such as olives, nuts, avocados, so they can be acquired without eating meat. Regardless of the source they are a vital part of healthy organs. People use sugars as a quick energy boost and this is exactly what MCT's do in the body. They do not get stored as fats but are used as an energy source. Grains/legumes will not reduce the cravings for sugars and in many cases grains produce sugars (which may reduce the craving because you are actually consuming food that turns to sugar in the body)which is a problem in itself.

Large scale animal product has many issues including environmental. Living in Kansas I frequently have the opportunity to view large herds of cattle grazing on the prairie with a backdrop of Jeffery Energy Center, a coal burning power plant. I have never considered the cattle or T-Bone on my plate to be in the same category of environment concern as the cattle grazing on the prairie.
If we are fighting a war, and be certain we are against environmental annihilation, we must fight against the enemy on every front, whether it be the biggest front or the smallest......Is the way I look at it.

Interesting read  on the fats and sugar. Fortunately for me I have like zero cravings for sugar. And even as I eat nearly zero meat these days, I find that I have less and less cravings for that either.. I think I do like and crave the fats though --such as butter, and will want them if they have been abscent for a while. Nuts are big on my personal list so good there. Getting back to the meats ...I'm wondering if  meat might have an addiction factor to it? Like many, many, other things in life, once one gets away from a particular overindulgence, one forgets what the indulgence was all about in the first place, I'm thinking in my case this is what is happening.

And maybe this country's obesity problem is more a matter of what we eat..not as much of "how much" we eat. And maybe that fact is because there is better and easier profit to be made targeting peoples heavy addictions for mass quantities of meat, so that is what gets marketed. I have witnessed the transformations due to the negative press on red meat that then allowed the white meat industry to kick into gear as a "replacement", but shouldn't a diet with less meat altogether be much healthier for us? Considering the plethora of flavors within the vegetable based diet it's pretty amazing if one thinks about it that this does not have a better offer for the palette to people.

But could we really be looking at an addictive craving the fats in our foods, and the excess being presented to us, because of the profit motive of the meat industry, be causing a health problem of epidemic proportions?

Paul
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by Anthony Medici on Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:22 am
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Having recently lost a number of pounds, I disagree with the general consensus of what people need to eat to lose weight. You see, I now consider myself insulin resistant. That means if I eat too many carbohydrates (sugars), it takes too long for my body to produce enough insulin to keep my blood sugar levels in a safe range. And once they do get back down into a safe range from those highs, the difference between the high and the low blood sugar levels creates hunger pangs which, if I eat more carbohydrates, causes another spike. I believe that cycle is what is causing most peoples problems with weight.

So I currently limit carbohydrate, almost to a level where I would almost be considered on the Atkins diet. Yet I do not monitor or care about the levels of fat that I eat. In fact, most "low fat" items add sugars to the food content, simply increasing the amount of carbohydrates you are consuming. In most restaurants, the weight watcher meals are not possible for me to eat without causing a spike in my blood sugar levels. But by limiting my carbohydrates to under 20 g per meal and generally eating as many proteins as carbohydrates, I've been able to keep my blood sugars in the normal range while losing weight.

So if I were to point a finger at what is causing the current obesity issue, I would put it squarely on the "low fat" fad and the tendency to eat very high amounts of processed carbohydrates. By removing fats and using sugar as a substitute for that fat, the food causes most people to produce high levels of insulin. That production then triggers the body to store sugar in cells. (create fat) And by removing the fat, the person eats more since the body doesn't trigger the "your full" feeling as quickly as it does with fat.


Another thing that causes the problem is the tendency to have fewer larger meals rather than having more smaller meals. This is a modern world problem of "too little time" so we can't spend the time to eat sparely but often. After all, not only would we need to make more time to eat, we'd need to make more time to prepare meals.


Meat in itself is not the issue causing obesity. 
Tony
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by Primus on Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:33 pm
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Anthony Medici wrote:......................

Meat in itself is not the issue causing obesity. 


Agree 100%

In my line of work I routinely see people over 300lbs and often over 400lbs in weight. This degree of obesity (called morbid obesity) is a behavioral, genetic and metabolic disease with a variety of risk factors and quite difficult to manage.

The so called 'mild to moderate' obesity (BTW, all of this is linked to BMI) is an endemic disease among the developed nations of the world. Metabolic syndrome, which is often a direct result of central (apple-shaped) obesity affects as many as 40% of the population beyond middle age.

None of this has anything to do with meat eating and I think we are digressing from the original post. 

A large percentage of the people living  in India are vegetarians, I too was one once upon a time :-( 

However they do eat animal protein in the form of milk, milk products and butter though the major portion of their protein intake is from lentils which are a part of the daily diet. I never saw anybody with vitamin deficiencies unless from the very poor section of society when kwashiorkor and marasmus were both visible.

So, in theory, one can live quite happily without killing animals for food and it makes perfect sense from an environmental and economic perspective. I won't debate the ethics of it because that is a minefield, but would highly recommend Timothy Pachirat's thought provoking book 'Every Twelve Seconds' which is the undercover story of a slaughterhouse in Nebraska. 

Most westerners when they think of Indian food visualize 'chicken tikka masala' and other such restaurant fare. There is a huge bounty of vegetarian dishes that are never served in a typical 'curry house' but are nevertheless healthy and delicious (no, it need not be an oxymoron). Then there is the South Indian cuisine which is mostly rice based and is a whole new experience in itself. 

One of the primary reasons we eat so much meat in the West is because it is heavily subsidized and because vegetables and fruits cost more, which is quite the opposite in developing nations where the true cost of raising livestock for meat is reflected in their market price. Imagine how much less consumption of meat and poultry there would be if it was $20 per pound instead of the $1.99 it is. How many people would eat a Big Mac if it cost $15? When chicken is cheaper than apples, well, guess what people are going to buy.

Pradeep
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by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:56 am
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baldsparrow wrote:
It is a fallacy to assume that our ancestors lived mostly on vegetable. Humans have evolved as natural omnivores and historically, while eating less meat than we do today, always had some meat in our diets. They don't talk about hunter-gatherers for nothing.

Your input on nutrition is appreciated. As far as the prehistoric diet my thoughts were not that our ancestors were vegetarians or ate only a little bit of meat. I'm sure they ate anything they could find and get their hands on. That being said, they certainly did not eat only meat and certainly not fast grown processed meat bathing in grease, sandwiched with a highly processed grain bun, along with a pile of potatoes cooked the same way. I know your not saying that either, but my point is that we have a trained palette or way of eating dictated to a large degree on what makes profit and what is promoted to be socially acceptable. We can retrain our palettes to enjoy vegetables without salt or butter and we can retrain our pallets to enjoy very small pieces of meat mixed in with a main course much as an accent. We are making a big mistake for ourselves and for the environment and for a lot of other reasons as fallout, by gorging ourselves on meat. There may have been periods of time where our ancestors ate a heavy amount of meat I am sure, but averaged out over the millions of years they evolved, they did not eat nearly as heavy of a meat diet as we are assuming is proper now. I'm sure as we descended out of the trees where we ate fruit for probably 90% of our diets or more, that we did not lose that  biological need anytime soon.

I think we are addicted to meat really. The totally full feeling that lasts half a day or more is satisfying, the flavor and texture is irresistible at times and yields an almost orgasmic pleasure. The nutritional needs are really not even thought of much and takes a back seat  in most peoples minds as they enjoy. It's like a drug I think..

Paul
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Last edited by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:19 am
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Primus wrote:
Anthony Medici wrote:......................

Meat in itself is not the issue causing obesity. 


Agree 100%

In my line of work I routinely see people over 300lbs and often over 400lbs in weight. This degree of obesity (called morbid obesity) is a behavioral, genetic and metabolic disease with a variety of risk factors and quite difficult to manage.

The so called 'mild to moderate' obesity (BTW, all of this is linked to BMI) is an endemic disease among the developed nations of the world. Metabolic syndrome, which is often a direct result of central (apple-shaped) obesity affects as many as 40% of the population beyond middle age.

None of this has anything to do with meat eating and I think we are digressing from the original post. 

A large percentage of the people living  in India are vegetarians, I too was one once upon a time :-( 

However they do eat animal protein in the form of milk, milk products and butter though the major portion of their protein intake is from lentils which are a part of the daily diet. I never saw anybody with vitamin deficiencies unless from the very poor section of society when kwashiorkor and marasmus were both visible.

So, in theory, one can live quite happily without killing animals for food and it makes perfect sense from an environmental and economic perspective. I won't debate the ethics of it because that is a minefield, but would highly recommend Timothy Pachirat's thought provoking book 'Every Twelve Seconds' which is the undercover story of a slaughterhouse in Nebraska. 

Most westerners when they think of Indian food visualize 'chicken tikka masala' and other such restaurant fare. There is a huge bounty of vegetarian dishes that are never served in a typical 'curry house' but are nevertheless healthy and delicious (no, it need not be an oxymoron). Then there is the South Indian cuisine which is mostly rice based and is a whole new experience in itself. 

One of the primary reasons we eat so much meat in the West is because it is heavily subsidized and because vegetables and fruits cost more, which is quite the opposite in developing nations where the true cost of raising livestock for meat is reflected in their market price. Imagine how much less consumption of meat and poultry there would be if it was $20 per pound instead of the $1.99 it is. How many people would eat a Big Mac if it cost $15? When chicken is cheaper than apples, well, guess what people are going to buy.

Pradeep

I lifted this from wiki:

"India is following a trend of other developing countries that are steadily becoming more obese. Unhealthy, processed food has become much more accessible following India's continued integration in global food markets. This, combined with rising middle class incomes, is increasing the average caloric intake per individual among the middle class and above income households."

The Indian people are being trained to eat unhealthy. 5% of the people are morbidly obese now which is approaching the obesity rate of 6.6% in the USA.

also from wiki:

Researchers have claimed that there has been a startling increase in rates of obesity and overweight in both adults (28 per cent increase) and children (up by 47 per cent) in the past 33 years, with the number of overweight and obese people rising from 857 million in 1980 to 2.1 billion in 2013 worldwide.


According to the Overseas development institute:

"India's consumption of animal products is approaching that of China's in terms of its contribution to the average plate, but here the increase is almost entirely in milk consumption, with only limited increases for meat," the report said.


Rising incomes and relatively cheaper food were singled out as the prime driver of national diets, with a marked shift from cereals and tubers to meat, fats, sugar, fruit and vegetables.


"Politicians are fearful of meddling with diets and alienating farming and food industry interests. It seems that this reflects public opinion, with many stakeholders seeing food choices as matters of personal freedom."

It stressed that decisive government intervention will become an inevitability in future to encourage people to eat healthier.








Although India's obesity problem is more from animal products, obviously obesity is not where the human body should be. Over consumption of animals is a problem for the whole world now and from what I can discern, is an unbalance of nature on many levels.

Great input Pradeep....

Paul
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"


Last edited by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 am
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Just one more then I'll take a rest:

The things you find when putsin around on the net.......


This is from Gallup:

Most Americans say obesity is either an "extremely" or a "very serious" problem to society, even more than cigarettes, according to a recent Gallup poll. Let me tell you, this insight hasn’t come a moment too soon.

At $2.5 trillion annually, America’s biggest budget problem remains healthcare costs. The U.S. healthcare bill is three times the size of the defense budget and nearly two times the whole Russian economy. It is also roughly twice the size of the whole Indian economy, and India has a billion-plus population.

These comparisons always blow me away because healthcare is breaking America faster than promises to pay Social Security and other pension benefits. And healthcare is growing at an average of 6% per year, which means the new costs over the next decade will be a staggering $10 trillion. That is new cost over and above where we currently are.

Let me cut to the chase. What's driving these costs are epidemic rates of obesity and diabetes. Obesity is the primary cause of Type 2 Diabetes and a major contributor to chronic disease. Chronic disease, like diabetes, is the engine for much of what goes wrong with many Americans’ health. If the country knocked out obesity, I’d argue that the United States of America would roar back -- unburdened by unsustainable healthcare costs -- and the country’s economy would be a hell of a lot stronger than it is today.

If Americans became a lot more physically fit, the $2.5 trillion would shrink dramatically. Even if it dropped by a third, the country’s economy would be fixed, in my view.

Simply put, many Americans just weigh too much. They eat tens of millions of cows, pigs, and chickens each year. Probably no tribe of people in the history of humankind has devoured this many animals.

Now eating these animals is just fine. This isn’t an argument for a national conversion to vegetarianism. But raising a cow or a chicken and then butchering it is very, very expensive. Grain is more expensive now than ever and each animal requires a great deal of clean water through life, and then a great deal more through slaughtering. Americans have to substantially cut their meat consumption.

And there’s a potential additional financial benefit to doing this. America’s farmers and ranchers could still produce a full herd, but sell the new overage to overseas markets, especially China. If Americans would be willing to eat fewer hogs, cattle, and chickens -- and export what they don’t eat -- the country could work off the massive debt it currently owes China. Let their citizens consume the animals Americans don’t.

Here’s a simple, clear recommendation: Americans should cut the number of cows, pigs, and chickens they eat by one-third. This could start at the city level, with business and government leaders creating campaigns and initiatives to reduce meat consumption in their towns. If such efforts were to spread from city to city throughout the U.S., it would be breathtaking and this would fix the biggest problem facing the country’s economy. It would cost less for Americans to eat -- and eating less would cut the country’s obesity rates, its healthcare costs, and thus its national debt.









OK I'm done. But when I read that healthcare is three times the military budget..........WOW!.


Now what to do with this bag of lentils I bought....


Paul



*read the article and great comments here:

http://thechairmansblog.gallup.com/2012 ... nomic.html
Paul Leverington
"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by pleverington on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:25 am
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Say anyone remember when Kennedy had that nationwide fitness program going in the sixties?? You know "touch down....every morning...ten times...go you chicken fat....go away...go you chicken fat....go!!"

It can be done again I think....

OK now I'm done..

Paul
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"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"
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by signgrap on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:33 am
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If you want to get a first hand look at how obesity is changing heath care visit a hospital waiting room. Take a look at the single seats, they are 1.5 the width of what they were 20 years ago. Take a look at the wheel chairs they are also 1.5 times wider than they use to be. I asked why so many wide chairs and the answer "most of our patients won't fit in a regular sized chair.
Dick Ludwig
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by Larry Shuman on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:17 pm
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My doctor told me I have type 2 diabetes. I don't believe him. So I work out 3 times a week-ride a excerise bike for 20 min and lift weights. I cured my back pain by losing 33 pounds off my front and I can carry my big 800mm with tripod, camera, flash and power pack along with another body with a 300 on it. I can carry this load all day when shooting warblers. I limit what I eat. I never eat outside my house. I have a salad for dinner 5 nights a week and one day on the weekend I'll have 2 eggs with 2 slices of bacon. Daily I only consume 2.25 grams of sugar.
I also eliminated all white flour from the diet. Thats no pies,cakes,cookies,donuts, ice cream etc.
I know someone who has eaten their way into hospice by consuming fast food. Its dishearting.
 
Larry Shuman
 
 
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by Primus on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:51 pm
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pleverington wrote:
Primus wrote:
Anthony Medici wrote:......................

Meat in itself is not the issue causing obesity. 


Agree 100%

In my line of work I routinely see people over 300lbs and often over 400lbs in weight. This degree of obesity (called morbid obesity) is a behavioral, genetic and metabolic disease with a variety of risk factors and quite difficult to manage.

The so called 'mild to moderate' obesity (BTW, all of this is linked to BMI) is an endemic disease among the developed nations of the world. Metabolic syndrome, which is often a direct result of central (apple-shaped) obesity affects as many as 40% of the population beyond middle age.

None of this has anything to do with meat eating and I think we are digressing from the original post. 

A large percentage of the people living  in India are vegetarians, I too was one once upon a time :-( 

However they do eat animal protein in the form of milk, milk products and butter though the major portion of their protein intake is from lentils which are a part of the daily diet. I never saw anybody with vitamin deficiencies unless from the very poor section of society when kwashiorkor and marasmus were both visible.

So, in theory, one can live quite happily without killing animals for food and it makes perfect sense from an environmental and economic perspective. I won't debate the ethics of it because that is a minefield, but would highly recommend Timothy Pachirat's thought provoking book 'Every Twelve Seconds' which is the undercover story of a slaughterhouse in Nebraska. 

Most westerners when they think of Indian food visualize 'chicken tikka masala' and other such restaurant fare. There is a huge bounty of vegetarian dishes that are never served in a typical 'curry house' but are nevertheless healthy and delicious (no, it need not be an oxymoron). Then there is the South Indian cuisine which is mostly rice based and is a whole new experience in itself. 

One of the primary reasons we eat so much meat in the West is because it is heavily subsidized and because vegetables and fruits cost more, which is quite the opposite in developing nations where the true cost of raising livestock for meat is reflected in their market price. Imagine how much less consumption of meat and poultry there would be if it was $20 per pound instead of the $1.99 it is. How many people would eat a Big Mac if it cost $15? When chicken is cheaper than apples, well, guess what people are going to buy.

Pradeep

I lifted this from wiki:

"India is following a trend of other developing countries that are steadily becoming more obese. Unhealthy, processed food has become much more accessible following India's continued integration in global food markets. This, combined with rising middle class incomes, is increasing the average caloric intake per individual among the middle class and above income households."

The Indian people are being trained to eat unhealthy. 5% of the people are morbidly obese now which is approaching the obesity rate of 6.6% in the USA.

also from wiki:

Researchers have claimed that there has been a startling increase in rates of obesity and overweight in both adults (28 per cent increase) and children (up by 47 per cent) in the past 33 years, with the number of overweight and obese people rising from 857 million in 1980 to 2.1 billion in 2013 worldwide.


According to the Overseas development institute:

"India's consumption of animal products is approaching that of China's in terms of its contribution to the average plate, but here the increase is almost entirely in milk consumption, with only limited increases for meat," the report said.


Rising incomes and relatively cheaper food were singled out as the prime driver of national diets, with a marked shift from cereals and tubers to meat, fats, sugar, fruit and vegetables.


"Politicians are fearful of meddling with diets and alienating farming and food industry interests. It seems that this reflects public opinion, with many stakeholders seeing food choices as matters of personal freedom."

It stressed that decisive government intervention will become an inevitability in future to encourage people to eat healthier.








Although India's obesity problem is more from animal products, obviously obesity is not where the human body should be. Over consumption of animals is a problem for the whole world now and from what I can discern, is an unbalance of nature on many levels.

Great input Pradeep....

Paul
Paul, I deliberately avoided mentioning India's burgeoning obesity problem (pun intended!). It is not from eating meat. Fact is, most of my relatives there are vegetarians (strictly speaking lacto-vegetarians) but are grossly obese. It is entirely possible to become fat from eating vegetarian food. They eat a lot of fried stuff and sweets made from milk solids.

The critical factor in avoiding obesity is portion control!

Pradeep
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by pleverington on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:18 pm
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And calorie dense foods if I might add....And very much a more sedentary lifestyle maybe. But too many double quarter pounders with bacon will do it too!!  And fried things in animal fats..

Paul
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"A great image is one that is created, not one that is made"


Last edited by pleverington on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Primus on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:53 pm
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pleverington wrote:
Let me cut to the chase. What's driving these costs are epidemic rates of obesity and diabetes. Obesity is the primary cause of Type 2 Diabetes and a major contributor to chronic disease. Chronic disease, like diabetes, is the engine for much of what goes wrong with many Americans’ health. 

Now what to do with this bag of lentils I bought....


Paul
Paul, this is a big topic and I will just touch on it a little for fear of causing severe thread drift.....

Much like the train in Stephen King's Black Tower series which is being taken over the precipice by the mad engine Blaine, the American healthcare train is speeding rapidly towards the brink of disaster. It is being led by three powerful engines. These, in order of their force and power are:

1. People's expectations: Where 100 yr old people with advanced dementia are kept alive on respirators in nursing homes, family refusing to allow them the dignity of death.

2. Malpractice laws: Overwhelming greed among lawyers and a public that has bought into the lottery of outrageous jury awards - 80 million for a recent case.This is where a pathologist gets sued for causing pain and suffering and death when all she did was an autopsy on somebody who was already dead.

3 Fee for service environment: Where a physician gets paid for each piece of patient care. The more he does, the more he makes. This however is how capitalism works  - you need a wedding photographer, you pay what he charges. Same goes for the plumber, the baker and all other professions. It is as old as civilization.

Again, apologies for digressing, but after working around the world as a physician for over 35 yrs this is what I have seen and experienced. All of this is true from my own life and I could give you dozens of examples which can only happen in our America.

Pradeep


Last edited by Primus on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Primus on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:58 pm
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Location: New York
Member #:02003
Larry Shuman wrote:My doctor told me I have type 2 diabetes. I don't believe him. So I work out 3 times a week-ride a excerise bike for 20 min and lift weights. I cured my back pain by losing 33 pounds off my front and I can carry my big 800mm with tripod, camera, flash and power pack along with another body with a 300 on it. I can carry this load all day when shooting warblers. I limit what I eat. I never eat outside my house. I have a salad for dinner 5 nights a week and one day on the weekend I'll have 2 eggs with 2 slices of bacon. Daily I only consume 2.25 grams of sugar.
I also eliminated all white flour from the diet. Thats no pies,cakes,cookies,donuts, ice cream etc.
I know someone who has eaten their way into hospice by consuming fast food. Its dishearting.
 
Larry Shuman
 
 
Larry, you cured yourself by losing the excess weight which is often the first line of therapy for diabetics.

The simple three step weight loss strategy that I always advise:

1. Portion control
2. Eliminate sweets
3. Regular exercise

Looks like you did that extremely successfully on your own. Great job. 

Pradeep
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