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by joseph motto on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:57 am
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I have had the Greta-Macbeth Eye-One Display 2 calibration system for about 8 years. I still have the same HP LP2465 monitor that I had when I first purchased the calibration system but I have a different computer and I have changed from Windows XP to Windows 7. My questions: Is this system outmoded and, if not, do I need to make any changes or upgrades as a result of the XP to 7 move?
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by Royce Howland on Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:10 am
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Monitor calibration relies on two things -- the hardware device (colorimeter) and the software. Both can be changed by the vendor, which has happened in this case. X-Rite no longer makes the i1 Display 2 product, the current product that replaces it is called the i1 Display Pro. It has different hardware and software.

As long as the colorimeter hardware continues to work, and remains a good match with your monitor, there's no reason to replace the hardware. Software may be a bit different story in some cases. You're probably running the i1Match software that came with your device; that software was end-of-lifed by X-Rite some time ago. As operating system upgrades and other changes continue to happen, you may reach a point where the software no longer works. At that point you'd want to find out whether you can upgrade to the newer software (now called i1Profiler). I don't know specifically if there's a software-only upgrade path, but I presume there would be.

If there isn't a software-only upgrade path, you could look at different software such as ColorEyes Display Pro that's been written about many times in past threads. It will work with a variety of hardware devices, and often is a way for people to deal with a software compatibility problem when their devices are still perfectly usable.

If you can't or don't want to upgrade only the software (perhaps because you suspect your colorimeter isn't working well any more or it's no longer a great match for a newly upgraded monitor), that would be the time to look at a completely new calibration package.

For now, I've not heard of any problems running the i1 Display 2 product on Windows 7. I tried it myself awhile back and didn't notice any issues at that time. So I'd say just keep using it until it breaks down, or until you change something more involved in the display calibration path, such as the monitor.
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by joseph motto on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:42 am
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Royce, I appreciate once again your expertise and willingness to help. I have always been uncomfortable with the calibration process itself and have never been convinced that I am doing it correctly. Therefore I rereviewed the manuals on my monitor and on the calibration system (Eye 1 Display 2) and recalibrated my monitor which appears substantially less bright than it has in the past. I am also posting a screen shot of that calibration in hopes you might be able to comment as to whether it looks acceptable or not. I have not yet tried to print anything yet and will be interested to see whether this has helped my dark print problem which is the underlying fly in the proverbial ointment here.
Image
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by Royce Howland on Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:21 am
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Your targets look fine in general. In fact, setting aside the ambient light measurement (which I don't bother with), I have the same settings on my 26" NEC 2690: colour temperature of 6500K (or D65 in some software), gamma of 2.2, and luminance of 90 cd/m2.

The only thing that might be a fly in the ointment is your target luminance of 90 cd/m2, and the fact that the measured reading was even a bit dimmer @ 86 cd/m2. Your HP LP2465 monitor is ~8 years old. While 90 - 100 cd/m2 is a good general rule of thumb luminance target for print matching, many monitors can't be reliably calibrated down to 90 cd/m2 even when they're new, let alone after the backlight has 8 years of operation on it.

The HP LP2465 was a cut above when it was new, and many people got great use out of that monitor. But as I recall from looking at several folks' LP2465 profiles back in the day, I probably wouldn't have recommended going with a luminance that low even back then. Going that low on an 8-year-old copy of the display may be impacting your display IQ. Things like loss of shadow tone detail, loss of colour gamut in some saturated hues, loss of contrast ratio, and loss of grey neutrality are common side-effects of calibrating a monitor to a dimmer luminance than it's really capable of handling.

To find out for sure, do some checking using test images like the ones at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/. Another option is using some tools like Gamutvision or BabelColor to analyze the actual monitor ICC profiles themselves created under several different brightness settings; I've shown many examples of the Gamutvision tool in past threads. These tools take a bit more learning to use and interpret the results, but they are the way to really nail down calibration performance for sure. Otherwise you're going by eye (with test images) or just by having to trust that the tool is working.
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by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:26 am
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A 2465 can't be reliably calibrated below 120, anything less than that severely compromises it's contrast ratio and that was when it was brand new.  That monitor simply is not capable of precision imaging in today's world.  It was the best office grade monitor for imaging in the mid 2000's but today it is a relic.  Sorry Joe ;)
 

by joseph motto on Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:57 am
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Hmmmm, perhaps it is time for a new monitor.
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by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:08 pm
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joseph motto wrote:Hmmmm, perhaps it is time for a new monitor.
I didn't want to say it that directly ;)
 

by Royce Howland on Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:06 pm
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To be a bit more conservative, I'd say it's time for a new monitor if: a) your old one is broken; b) your old one works more or less as well as it ever did but you've outgrown its capabilities and need something more; or c) you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want to spend it on a monitor upgrade.

I try to avoid c) these days, and do a) as much as possible. Sometimes I get stuck with b). :) In the monitor department, sticking with a) or b) is why I'm still running a 5+ year old NEC 2690. The new NEC 27" and larger monitors are awesome but I have a hard time justifying it while my old NEC is still chugging along like a tank. If it continues to refuse to fail, eventually I'll get tired of waiting and pull a b) anyway, but I'm still giving it some more time.

Whether you upgrade it or not, 8 years of productive runtime out of an HP LP2465 is a pretty good return on investment as 24" mid-range monitors go...
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by joseph motto on Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:29 pm
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Thanks to both of you for the gentle touch.
In searching info on a new monitor I note that both of you weighed in on NEC monitors in February. (http://www.naturescapes.net/forums/view ... s#p2341109)

Does what you said then apply here in September and do you have any other words of wisdom to add?
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by Royce Howland on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:22 pm
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I've written at length about the NEC monitors in the past. I'm a fan. They're what I use, and what I recommend for those with the budget for a display designed for colour-critical work. Considering how much money we spend on cameras, lenses, computers, software, travel, etc., a few bucks on a really good monitor seems like a reasonable thing to me. If you need to step up, the NEC SpectraView models would be fantastic choices...
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by E.J. Peiker on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:28 pm
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I'll second what Royce said. I have the 30" NEC w/ Spectraview and it has been simply fantastic.
 

by Alan Melle on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:58 pm
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Another vote for the NEC monitors. I have a 27" NEC w/Spectraview and it's terrific.
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by Andrew Kandel on Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:14 pm
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I don't know if you can wait this long, but the last couple of years NEC has had great deals on their monitors during the Black Friday - Cyber Monday period.
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by joseph motto on Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:35 pm
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Thanks to all. Found what appears to be a reasonable price at Adorama, it is due to arrive Monday.
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by Royce Howland on Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:59 pm
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Let us know how you get one, Joseph. There's a particular thing you may want to do with your new NEC to get it calibrated with a visual look that matches your old monitor. The difference is caused by the different way that old CCFL (fluorescent) backlights worked, vs. the new GBr LED backlights.

I won't get into it here just at the moment, as I'm recovering from a week-long workshop and a very early heavy snowstorm that took out our power for most of the past day plus downed a tremendous number of trees in our neighborhood. But if you see what looks like a colour cast or colour temperature difference in your new monitor, after calibration, follow up on it here and I'll point out the small additional on-time step you can try to see if you like the results better...
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by joseph motto on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:31 pm
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My new NEC monitor is up and running and looks terrific. I completed the calibration and perhaps for the first time I am satisfied that it was done correctly. I see no obvious color casts and am quite satisfied with everything at present. Soon I will try printing and hopefully my dark print problem will be resolved also; I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks again for all input here.
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by E.J. Peiker on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:41 pm
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Did you set your brightness target to 90-100 or so. The default value for Spectraview is higher, 120 if memory serves. If you left it on the default value your prints will still look too dark.
 

by joseph motto on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:29 pm
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I did not but I will.
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